Boat scam

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

No. Has to be upfront. I will meet you in a car park of your choice.

I've heard about such meetings before.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

What strikes me in these situations is, I may have missed it somewhere, but did the buyer ever get any sort of evidence that the boat they were buying actually belonged to the person that he gave the money to? It's not that difficult to get some worn key to operate the ignition on most boats so just because he could start it doesn't give much evidence. The fact that the boat was cheap is going to massively work against you if a real owner steps forward to reclaim ownership before a Court because if you've paid a lot less than the boat appears to be worth it suggests that your honesty is in some doubt and a Court would certainly find in favour of the other party.

 

I know that some people are going to tell us of the 'bargains' they've got by handing over a wedge of cash on the canalside, but it isn't much of a bargain if the boat is later shown to be stolen (or shall we say sold by someone who doesn't own it). For me, evidence of ownership is everything and without it, I don't care what the 'bargain' is, I'm walking away.

[MtB]

36 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

For me, evidence of ownership is everything and without it, I don't care what the 'bargain' is, I'm walking away.

 

What evidence would you find compelling, given there is no ownership register?

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

What evidence would you find compelling, given there is no ownership register?

 

 

Maybe sitting in the lounge of the boat having a cup of tea and maybe taking a photo of the seller

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe sitting in the lounge of the boat having a cup of tea and maybe taking a photo of the seller

 

And the subject of the OP did exactly this and still got stiffed for £3.5k!

 

 

Or was that your point?

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And the subject of the OP did exactly this and still got stiffed for £3.5k!

 

 

Or was that your point?

You catch on quick, I am surprised no one else thought about it earlier before I posted.

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Or was that your point?

Cunning late addition.  It can be helpful when your post merges with your previous one. 

 

[MHS]

13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

What evidence would you find compelling, given there is no ownership register?

 

 

A good start might be copies of the licence & insurance renewals, some service bills for the boat showing the licence number and home address of the seller. If they have a photo driving licence with the same address you can certainly be more confident. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

35 minutes ago, MHS said:

A good start might be copies of the licence & insurance renewals, some service bills for the boat showing the licence number and home address of the seller. If they have a photo driving licence with the same address you can certainly be more confident. 

Exactly that! I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for some verifiable identification from someone you're about to hand a load of dosh to, along with something to prove that they have had the boat insured/ licenced etc. If they don't want to pass this info, so be it, there are other boats available. I have never bought anything with my 'heart', always with my 'head'. I have in the past declined to buy what appeared perfectly serviceable cars because my head told me that it may not all be as it seems, why take the risk?

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

why take the risk?

 

That's an easy one. 

 

To get a £10k or £15k boat for £3.5k, obviously. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

That's an easy one. 

 

To get a £10k or £15k boat for £3.5k, obviously. 

Forking out £3.5 grand for a boat you may not end up owning, what sort of deal is that? At least if I have asked for verifiable identification of the vendor along with some evidence of ownership (licence/insurance etc) as far as a Court in the future may be concerned I have at least shown some 'due diligence'. "It was a bargain, your Honour" doesn't give any evidence of due diligence, quite the contrary really since it suggests that if the price is cheap you aren't that bothered about the source.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Forking out £3.5 grand for a boat you may not end up owning, what sort of deal is that?

 

A risky one as the subject of the OP is finding out. 

 

But as other have pointed out, sometimes legit bargains can be found. Some even make a good living from sniffing them out and taking the odd mistake on the chin. It has a LOT to do with one's personal attitude to financial risk. If losing £3.5k would be an  minor annoyance rather than a financial disaster, why not take the risk and probably turn it into £15k? 

 

Not everyone's attitudes are the same as yours.

[Sea Dog]

5 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

No. Has to be upfront. I will meet you in a car park of your choice.

That's risky: what if he chooses an NCP?  Most of your 3 grand could be gone in parking charges!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A risky one as the subject of the OP is finding out. 

 

But as other have pointed out, sometimes legit bargains can be found. Some even make a good living from sniffing them out and taking the odd mistake on the chin. It has a LOT to do with one's personal attitude to financial risk. If losing £3.5k would be an  minor annoyance rather than a financial disaster, why not take the risk and probably turn it into £15k? 

 

Not everyone's attitudes are the same as yours.

I suppose that the difference is that I'm not bothered about turning £3.5k into £15k, my interest would be in turning it into a boat, preferably one that I can keep rather than have the legitimate owner chasing me to recover it.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I don't know why people are going on about a licence.  This is the Middle Level, remember, as I pointed out in Post #29.  It's the Wild West East.  Though not for much longer..

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Just now, Mac of Cygnet said:

I don't know why people are going on about a licence.  This is the Middle Level, remember, as I pointed out in Post #29.  It's the Wild West East.  Though not for much longer..

Still need insurance though, don't you? evidence of insurance renewal would be good.

[dor]

In the days when I was involved with selling boats through a brokerage, we went to a lot of trouble to establish ownership and the right to sell before we took a boat on.  Even so we very nearly got caught out.  One was a new boat from an established well-respected business.  We had actually sold the boat, and sent the cheque to the vendor.  The night before the new owner collected the boat we had an email from another party claiming that the vendor did not have the right to sell the boat.  We managed to stop the cheque but  it took quite a bit of sorting out.  Another case, in fact more than one, resulted where a couple had split up and one party wanted to sell the boat.  They had quite reasonable documentation to show they apparently owned the boat, but didn't let on that their ex-partner was a co-owner.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, dor said:

They had quite reasonable documentation to show they apparently owned the boat, but didn't let on that their ex-partner was a co-owner.

That is where the SSR helps as it lists all owners.

 

It really bemuses me that the 'Inland Waterways' (generally) doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with 'paperwork'.

[Greyladyx]

Direct UK bank transfers with the seller person in the bank everytime.

 

Too many shafters our their.

[Jim Riley]

On 12/12/2018 at 15:12, rusty69 said:

I've heard about such meetings before.

You risk being dogged by failure. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Jim Riley said:

You risk being dogged by failure. 

But isn't it better done in public ?

[Jim Riley]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But isn't it better done in public ?

Of course, in the aforementioned car park. Do keep up. I thought you were an expert in all things?

[Momac]

On 10/12/2018 at 20:38, wandering snail said:

Please if anyone has any information at all regarding either the boat or persons involved would they be kind enough to contact both myself and the police! I have incident numbers with both the Sussex police and Actionfraud.

 

I am curious to learn why Sussex police are involved (other then being the county where the victim lives) as the alleged crime appears to have been committed in Norfolk. 

Also would be interested on any factual reports of any progress .

 

I am not certain who is the victim here and would like to learn the truth .

The story in the original post  could  be fictional . No money may have changed hands and the owner of the boat oblivious to the scam. 

 

 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

According to a thread in Facebook a week or two ago. the person named bought the boat off the previous owner, but the cheque bounced. They then purported to sell it to the OP.  The boat has now been located, on the Middle Level, and the original owner and the OP are in contact with each other.  Something like that, anyway. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Scholar Gypsy

[StephenA]

On 11/12/2018 at 08:47, Sea Dog said:

How often do you meet them in, say, a car park, hand over the money, drive off without the goods and hope they get delivered?

 

At least with a car there are things like a V5