Mooring on own land, if sssi land

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Looking at the map it would appear that the SSSI and the SPA end at the river bank (rather than within the river channel). So a boat moored in the river channel will not be moored in the SSSI/SPA, only adjacent to them. So if you bang in a couple of poles to moor against just inside the channel, the mooring itself should not be affected by the SSSI/SPA status. So that leaves the question of access to the mooring over the adjoining land. If you store nothing on the land, and access only on foot, it is difficult to see how that could be an issue.

 

I was thinking along similar lines. But if its a river, riparian rights/responsibilities extend to the centre of the navigation I believe, so it could turn out that the SSSI goes out the the centre of the river too. 

 

Initially I was thinking another approach would be to just moor the boat there and see who objects (if anyone). But by raising the matter with the Planning Dept you may have unfortunately already set that hare running. 

 

[Tumshie]

9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Initially I was thinking another approach would be to just moor the boat there and see who objects (if anyone). But by raising the matter with the Planning Dept you may have unfortunately already set that hare running. 

That's fine until the OP is fined £££££s for violating a SSSI. Planing and a SSSI are two very different things. 

 

9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I was thinking along similar lines. But if its a river, riparian rights/responsibilities extend to the centre of the navigation I believe, so it could turn out that the SSSI goes out the the centre of the river too. 

But you don't know. Riparian rights and SSSI are again not the same thing and don't work by the same logic. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tumshie

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tumshie said:

But you don't know. Riparian rights and SSSI are again not the same thing and don't work by the same logic. 

 

 

True. I was thinking about how the SSSI define the boundaries of the land being designated. If they use LR boundaries, then the SSSI may extend out into the river. That is what I meant. How DO they define the boundaries of a designated site?

 

[David Mack]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

True. I was thinking about how the SSSI define the boundaries of the land being designated. If they use LR boundaries, then the SSSI may extend out into the river. That is what I meant. How DO they define the boundaries of a designated site?

 

If the map posted earlier is part of the official designation of the SSSI then the boundary is clear. But if it is a secondary source which has been (incorrectly) copied from the original, then the SSSI may indeed include some or all of the river channel.

[Tumshie]

17 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

True. I was thinking about how the SSSI define the boundaries of the land being designated. If they use LR boundaries, then the SSSI may extend out into the river. That is what I meant. How DO they define the boundaries of a designated site?

 

The Home Office has a land census taken every few years and that cartography is used for all official government recording of land, it is pin point accurate and when the SSSI is created it is added to this map. 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If the map posted earlier is part of the official designation of the SSSI then the boundary is clear. But if it is a secondary source which has been (incorrectly) copied from the original, then the SSSI may indeed include some or all of the river channel.

The map shown is an NE map so is very likely to be accurate but what we do not know is if the OP owns any of that land, all of it or if they just some of it. The OP just says this - Apparently Dungeness is over 4000ha of land  and then shows the map.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tumshie

[alias]

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If the map posted earlier is part of the official designation of the SSSI then the boundary is clear. But if it is a secondary source which has been (incorrectly) copied from the original, then the SSSI may indeed include some or all of the river channel.

The NE makes the geographic data available through http://naturalengland-defra.opendata.arcgis.com/ to those who have the software to use it. 

[ditchcrawler]

46 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

True. I was thinking about how the SSSI define the boundaries of the land being designated. If they use LR boundaries, then the SSSI may extend out into the river. That is what I meant. How DO they define the boundaries of a designated site?

 

Reading a planning request for a marina on the T&M a SSSI on the other side of the canal was taken into account.

 

[jonathanA]

Obvious question if you have bought the land why did your solicitor not give you chapter and verse ? 

 

Ive just bought some land that borders a canal and although it’s not sssi

 ( thank goodness) it is green belt and the paperwork I’ve got is about an inch thick....

[MtB]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Reading a planning request for a marina on the T&M a SSSI on the other side of the canal was taken into account.

 

 

Another issue is how most undeveloped land around here seems to turn into SSSI as soon as a developer buys it. A bit like how the rare great crested newts infest nearly every bit of land worth building on nowadays!

[Tumshie]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Another issue is how most undeveloped land around here seems to turn into SSSI as soon as a developer buys it. A bit like how the rare great crested newts infest nearly every bit of land worth building on nowadays!

There is good reason for that - as soon as someone wants to do something a bod is sent out to do a survey. Land left to its own devices has the potential to develop any of the number of things needed for a SSSI and because its been unused people see it as good for development - chicken and egg ? sort of. 

[TCP]

9 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Obvious question if you have bought the land why did your solicitor not give you chapter and verse ? 

 

Ive just bought some land that borders a canal and although it’s not sssi

 ( thank goodness) it is green belt and the paperwork I’ve got is about an inch thick....

Solicitors did let me know everything, I was aware that land is sssi from the land searches, but what I intended to do wouldn’t harm the land and through would work, I’m still positive something can be done.

44 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

The Home Office has a land census taken every few years and that cartography is used for all official government recording of land, it is pin point accurate and when the SSSI is created it is added to this map. 

 

 

 

The map shown is an NE map so is very likely to be accurate but what we do not know is if the OP owns any of that land, all of it or if they just some of it. The OP just says this - Apparently Dungeness is over 4000ha of land  and then shows the map.

I only bought 3 plots from that area with right of access on foot or by vehicle, two of the plots have river frontage.

The map is what NE have sent to me.

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, TCP said:

Solicitors did let me know everything, I was aware that land is sssi from the land searches, but what I intended to do wouldn’t harm the land and through would work, I’m still positive something can be done.

So you need to thoroughly read through the SSSI paperwork and decide what restrictions, if any, it imposes on what you are proposing. That way you can have an informed discussion with the NE people. If you just say "Can I do this?" their first reaction is likely to be "No".

[TCP]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

True. I was thinking about how the SSSI define the boundaries of the land being designated. If they use LR boundaries, then the SSSI may extend out into the river. That is what I meant. How DO they define the boundaries of a designated site?

 

On the other side of the river there are houses and the gardens back onto the river so doubt that river is part of the sssi

2 hours ago, Tumshie said:

I must confess that in all the time I've been dealing with SSSIs I've never had to add a mooring into the equation, at least not one that didn't already exist.

 

I suspect whether or not you require PP depends on the type of mooring you do / have and how you access the mooring too, and I suppose what body of water it's on. 

 

If you didn't build any thing but just knocked in pins to tie up to maybe you wouldn't need PP, IDK. But worth thinking about. 

I would have placed some concrete blocks with buoys in the river, didn’t intend to place  anything on the land because of it being sssi.

[TCP]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

So you need to thoroughly read through the SSSI paperwork and decide what restrictions, if any, it imposes on what you are proposing. That way you can have an informed discussion with the NE people. If you just say "Can I do this?" their first reaction is likely to be "No".

That’s a very good point, NOTED.

[Tumshie]

30 minutes ago, TCP said:

 

Well, that was possibly all a bit more traumatic than you expected. I hope you are now enjoying a good cup of tea to recover. 

 

I wish you well with your endeavour and I hope you pop back again, if for no other reason than to let us know how you are getting on with the project. 

 

Tumsh. ?

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tumshie

[Momac]

6 hours ago, TCP said:

This feels like having a piece of art in British museum, its mine but cannot touch it.

Genuine question........

Rather than not touching  the land are you not obliged to maintain the land, possibly including  including seasonal grazing if that it is appropriate?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/protected-areas-sites-of-special-scientific-interest#get-consent-to-carry-out-operations

 

 

[Greyladyx]

I think the Fed's will always make a new rule as they go along, as we know nothing is written in stone with the canal and river trust.

 

Best of luck, buy a needle and thread for your pockets. 

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, Greyladyx said:

I think the Fed's will always make a new rule as they go along, as we know nothing is written in stone with the canal and river trust.

 

Best of luck, buy a needle and thread for your pockets. 

Do CRT control the waters at Dungeness ?

[Greyladyx]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do CRT control the waters at Dungeness ?

Not sure do they? 

 

It does not sound appealing in the name 'Dungeness'  ,   is that a Crt torture confession room for overstayer's ?

Edited December 8, 2018 by Greyladyx

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Greyladyx said:

Not sure do they? 

 

It does not sound appealing in the name 'Dungeness'  ,   is that a Crt torture confession room for overstayer's ?

 

There is a BRILLIANT power station there, AND a narrer gauge railway!!

[Greyladyx]

11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

There is a BRILLIANT power station there, AND a narrer gauge railway!!

Sounds good.

 

I like that stuff too.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Greyladyx said:

Sounds good.

 

I like that stuff too.

 

Forgot to say, a STEAM railway. You'll love it! 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romney,_Hythe_and_Dymchurch_Railway

[Greyladyx]

Nice, they use to build narrow gauge tracks in ww1 to get the ammo to the front.

 

Someone's put a lot a money in that to back the skilled volunteers.

 

[MtB]

Just now, Greyladyx said:

Nice, they use to build narrow gauge tracks in ww1 to get the ammo to the front.

 

Someone's put a lot a money in that to back the skilled volunteers.

 

 

Yes. Them steam locos cost SERIOUS munny to run.

 

That railway bin there since I was a child in 1899 BC.

[Tumshie]

14 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Forgot to say, a STEAM railway. You'll love it! 

See all those carriages - I'm under the impression in England they all got scraped but there are still quite a few up in Scotland - they ended up in fields as animal shelters and in peoples gardens some even became tea rooms.