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sailor mcgee

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17 minutes ago, sailor mcgee said:

so, whats the max capacity in metric tonnes of cargo a widbeam cargo boat can carry?

asking for a friend.... or something like that

It depends how long and how wide it is etc etc somewhere between 20 and several thousand tons.

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29 minutes ago, sailor mcgee said:

lets take the max for grand union 70ft long,14ft wide. Narrow canals 70ft long, 7ft wide, don't know the air draft

Water draught is more important but to get the ball rolling, the record for a pair of narrow boats (boat and butty) using the broad beam Grand Union locks is approx 62 and a quarter tons,

 

George

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1 minute ago, furnessvale said:

Water draught is more important but to get the ball rolling, the record for a pair of narrow boats (boat and butty) using the broad beam Grand Union locks is approx 62 and a quarter tons,

 

George

 

Tons or Tonnes ?

(or as the Yanks call them - Long tons or Short tons)

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I know about narrowboats because I live on one, but you can do the conversion arithmetic.

 

A 70 foot narrowboat (7 foot wide) will displace about an extra inch of water for each extra ton of load. (Proper English tons and metric tonnes are much the same give or take a % or so)

 

Our English canals are just about 3 feet deep and that's a bit optimistic.

 

If you don't understand feet then you need to learn quickly before moving onto our canals ?

 

...............Dave

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

I know about narrowboats because I live on one, but you can do the conversion arithmetic.

 

A 70 foot narrowboat (7 foot wide) will displace about an extra inch of water for each extra ton of load. (Proper English tons and metric tonnes are much the same give or take a % or so)

 

Our English canals are just about 3 feet deep and that's a bit optimistic.

 

If you don't understand feet then you need to learn quickly before moving onto our canals ?

 

...............Dave

yeah.... something about that.image.png.9f39507b14a8eb8d7b06bf09a6af0607.png

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21 minutes ago, sailor mcgee said:

yeah.... something about that.image.png.9f39507b14a8eb8d7b06bf09a6af0607.png

Yup, thats exactly it. Our tape measures and rules have cm on one edge and inches on the other and we decide which one to use depending upon the phase of the moon.

 

Sometimes we work in tenths of inch but normally we prefer 1/2   1/4  1/8  1/16 and also 1/32    see! we invented binary even before computers. For engineering we like the "thou" which is 1/000 of an inch.  A thou of wear in a cylinder bore is significant, and a skilled engine builder can just detect a step of 1/10 thou with his fingernail.

 

and then there's 6 inches but we don't want to get another thread closed!!!!!  (and that's not your thing anyway)

 

.............Dave

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  • 42 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

    Water draught is more important but to get the ball rolling, the record for a pair of narrow boats (boat and butty) using the broad beam Grand Union locks is approx 62 and a quarter tons,

     

    George

I do like the way you say "approx" and then give an answer with 0.2% tolerance. But hardly anyone will notice because 58% of the population don't understand statistics anyway. :P

 

Wasn't the norm somewhere in the order of 50 tons for a pair; weighted in favour of the butty? Maybe by as much as 52% to 48% i.e. a huge imbalance. :blink:

 

Assuming your measure is in imperial tons (which is the same as a US long ton) the metric equivalent would be 63.25 tonnes or 69.75 US (short) tons. All quoted to the nearest quarter ton(ne).

 

I suspect someone on the forum knows what present day coal boats can carry on their particular routes and it's presumably somewhat less than in the days of regular carrying.

 

JP

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9 minutes ago, dmr said:

Yup, thats exactly it. Our tape measures and rules have cm on one edge and inches on the other and we decide which one to use depending upon the phase of the moon.

 

Sometimes we work in tenths of inch but normally we prefer 1/2   1/4  1/8  1/16 and also 1/32    see! we invented binary even before computers. For engineering we like the "thou" which is 1/000 of an inch.  A thou of wear in a cylinder bore is significant, and a skilled engine builder can just detect a step of 1/10 thou with his fingernail.

 

and then there's 6 inches but we don't want to get another thread closed!!!!!  (and that's not your thing anyway)

 

.............Dave

how long is any tunnel? 1000m  how long is a boat 70ft.... logic

 

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5 minutes ago, sailor mcgee said:

how long is any tunnel? 1000m  how long is a boat 70ft.... logic

 

Our "navigation authority", Canal and River Trust, works totally in Metric units, but many of us would prefer to see distances in yards and miles. Its difficult, our canal system is a wonderful ancient monument so the historic "mileposts" obviously work in miles, whilst some modern signs work in km (or minutes of cycling time which is daft). I licence my boat in metric units but the locks were mostly built to take either a 57 foot or a 72 foot boat. The narrow locks were built to take a 7 foot wide boat but due to ground movement 6'10" is seen as sensible maximum.  The metric units look a bit clumsy when quantifying a system that has evolved in imperial units.

 

............Dave

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3 minutes ago, sailor mcgee said:

how long is any tunnel? 1000m  how long is a boat 70ft.... logic

 

Why does there need to be logic? Different unit systems are just different ways of using numbers and symbols to describe the very same thing. In language there is almost never an instance where two people would use the exact same words to describe the same thing so why should there be so in Mathematics? It's just the language of numbers and equations rather than letters and words.

 

That 1,000 metre long tunnel is 1,094 yards and the 70ft boat is 21.34 metres. You will find both systems used on the canal and in pretty much every walk of life. It isn't a fundamental issue. I will though concede that consistency is useful for the hard of thinking.

 

JP

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I buy my diesel in litres, and only know my water tank capacity in litres, I measure my speed in miles per hour but my fuel consumption in litres/hour. Beer, of course, comes in pints. I don't see any problems!

 

...............Dave

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1 hour ago, sailor mcgee said:

lets take the max for grand union 70ft long,14ft wide. Narrow canals 70ft long, 7ft wide, don't know the air draft

The locks on the GU main line will all take two narrow boats side by side, but some of the bridges won't. In general, the further you go from the Brentford end up the GU in a widebeam, the less popular you will be with anyone navigating in the opposite direction. I'm not sure where the limit of navigation would be for a boat a full 14' wide, but it'll be well before the end (Sampson Road, top of Camp Hill locks, a few miles short of Birmingham city centre).

 

If you took the biggest widebeam that could go all the way to Sampson Road, about 70' x 12', and loaded it as much as possible while still being able to get over the shallowest bits (I nominate the cutting just west of Catherine de Barnes), I estimate you could carry about 40 tonnes. But it would be easier to take the same cargo there in a pair of narrow boats.

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10 minutes ago, Peter X said:

The locks on the GU main line will all take two narrow boats side by side, but some of the bridges won't. In general, the further you go from the Brentford end up the GU in a widebeam, the less popular you will be with anyone navigating in the opposite direction. I'm not sure where the limit of navigation would be for a boat a full 14' wide, but it'll be well before the end (Sampson Road, top of Camp Hill locks, a few miles short of Birmingham city centre).

 

If you took the biggest widebeam that could go all the way to Sampson Road, about 70' x 12', and loaded it as much as possible while still being able to get over the shallowest bits (I nominate the cutting just west of Catherine de Barnes), I estimate you could carry about 40 tonnes. But it would be easier to take the same cargo there in a pair of narrow boats.

on a widebeam id maybe opt to go from london to the north via the river lea and then up towards humberside along the humber and towards liverpool leeds (when thats open)

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6 hours ago, sailor mcgee said:

on a widebeam id maybe opt to go from london to the north via the river lea and then up towards humberside along the humber and towards liverpool leeds (when thats open)

UK Canal boats (fat or thin) are not really 'sea-worthy'. They have been known to have problems with waves breaking over the bows on the River Thames.

I would no more take one up the East Coast than I would 'fly to the moon'.

 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

UK Canal boats (fat or thin) are not really 'sea-worthy'. They have been known to have problems with waves breaking over the bows on the River Thames.

I would no more take one up the East Coast than I would 'fly to the moon'.

 

There is still time (no, too late, you missed the boat)

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-launches-first-ever-mission-to-the-moons-farside/

Edited by rusty69
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9 hours ago, sailor mcgee said:

yeah.... something about that.image.png.9f39507b14a8eb8d7b06bf09a6af0607.png

Yes, we still have a way to go before the rest of the world understands British measurements.

Now, about those pounds, shillings and pence....

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Not convinced by this map, US gallons for example. they're not Imperial. 

No one has mentioned the Roman Mile.

A yard of ale.

A rule of thumb.

A Welsh Cob 14.3 hands high.

Enough rope to hang yourself.

How long is that piece of string?

50p = £ [L] .s d. = £ shillings/pence = ten bob = 10/-

13= a baker's dozen 

A pair of coconut's 77p  = a greengrocers' apostrophe 

Edited by LadyG
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8 hours ago, sailor mcgee said:

on a widebeam id maybe opt to go from london to the north via the river lea and then up towards humberside along the humber and towards liverpool leeds (when thats open)

You will have capacity on your wide boat for a JCB and a rather large bucket of water. You will need both when you reach Hertford on the Lee.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The start of the decline - 15th Feb 1971.

Never been the same since.

That was just the money. There had been creeping infiltration by the metric system since about the mid-1960s. It's taken quite a long time, though: I can ask for a quarter of ham inte deli, and an assistant who certainly wasn't born when the metric system was introduced seems to know what I mean.

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2 minutes ago, Athy said:

That was just the money. There had been creeping infiltration by the metric system since about the mid-1960s. It's taken quite a long time, though: I can ask for a quarter of ham inte deli, and an assistant who certainly wasn't born when the metric system was introduced seems to know what I mean.

I went into out local village Butcher the other day and asked for a 'pound of sausages' it was supplied with narry an eyebrow raised.

 

As an aside - I also asked for a couple of Pork chops and requested "make them lean", to which he replied "certainly, which way ?"

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