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what happens to abandoned boats?


sailor mcgee

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1 minute ago, harrybsmith said:

On a steel Hull with Ply topsides it'll pretty much always leak from somewhere as they expand at different rates. Ply Hull is doable but surprisingly expensive and you would havd to design rubbing strakes carefully as wood really suffers against concrete banks and locks. 

 

Go GRP, they're great! 

greenhart anyone?

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2 hours ago, sailor mcgee said:

yes.  i am, i can sandblast and have been trying sandblasting with soda as it is less harsh than many of the different sands you usually find.

and if you beg borrow and liberate (with the concent of the owner id suggest that you can get a lot further than to pay a yard to do it. unless its the hull; always get a yard to work on the hull.

Sand blasting does not actually use sand as its a health hazard, some sort of high tech grit I think. Soda blasting was sold as the modern alternative to sandblasting but has never really caught on, I believe its needs a LOT of cleaning up before painting whilst grit blasting leaves a surface that's perfectly ready to paint.

There is also dry-ice blasting with no mess at all (it simply evaporates and adds to global warming) but I think its expensive.

You really do need to get over here and spend some time getting to understand our canals and boats.

 

.............Dave

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

Sand blasting does not actually use sand as its a health hazard, some sort of high tech grit I think. Soda blasting was sold as the modern alternative to sandblasting but has never really caught on, I believe its needs a LOT of cleaning up before painting whilst grit blasting leaves a surface that's perfectly ready to paint.

There is also dry-ice blasting with no mess at all (it simply evaporates and adds to global warming) but I think its expensive.

You really do need to get over here and spend some time getting to understand our canals and boats.

 

.............Dave

with respect i used sand. and used soda in the dry dock here in sweden. sweden is ppe obsessed

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1 minute ago, sailor mcgee said:

with respect i used sand. and used soda in the dry dock here in sweden. sweden is ppe obsessed

Sweden is one of the countries that ban the use of silica sand for blasting, as is the UK.

 

Are you sure it wasn't crushed garnet?  Garnet looks like sand, but it isn't.

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9 minutes ago, sailor mcgee said:

with respect i used sand. and used soda in the dry dock here in sweden. sweden is ppe obsessed

Wikepedia is not a reliable source of knowledge but it does say:

 

Mineral: Silica sand can be used as a type of mineral abrasive. It tends to break up quickly, creating large quantities of dust, exposing the operator to the potential development of silicosis, a debilitating lung disease. To counter this hazard, silica sand for blasting is often coated with resins to control the dust. Using silica as an abrasive is not allowed in Germany, United Kingdom, Sweden, or Belgium for this reason.[11] Silica is a common abrasive in countries where it is not banned.[12]

 

but I still think you need to get over here in real life and have a look, the www and forums do have their limitations.  I've spent a bit of time in Goteburg and its a nice place but its better here, the beer is much cheaper and its gets properly dark at night and properly light in the daytime ?

 

..............Dave

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8 hours ago, sailor mcgee said:

greenhart anyone?

I know of two and possibly a third narrow boats built of greenhart  in Cheshire. At least one has greenhart rubbing bands . They do not suffer rot.Another recently re-built 70ft boat has  greenhart bottom boards re-claimed from a ship's deck. So, yep, very doable.

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11 hours ago, sailor mcgee said:

I am keen to get on the water, and i wonder a few things, firstly i am wondering if crt simply crush abandoned or unlicenced boats or do they auction them off for a pound or something?. there are bound to be some run down boats without a usable cabin, perhaps abandoned ones with just a hull that may be worth sand blasting survaying and painting? perhaps with a little luck avoid need for overplating - survey dependent on the thickness of the metal of course. 

id be interested to find out if anyone knows what they do with them?

The topic has gone way off this original question but if you ask around wherever there are a bunch of moorings you will always find a boat or two for sale that need a bit of TLC.

 

We know of several that could be had for £1k or under and would make nice boats again if you are willing to put in some work, time and money.

 

Don't under estimate the time and effort it will take to bring one of these old small cruisers back into use again though. If you have a number and time scale in mind, treble it at least and have a decent contingency for when you go over the budget.

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2 hours ago, BWM said:

One of the fire damaged craft has a very unfortunate name, warm glow!!

The fire damaged Fairline 22 is one of the boats that got damaged when a Freeman 22 caught fire on the fuel berth at Burton Waters last year. 

 

Not sure why it has not been  cut up and scrapped as there is nothing to salvage off it!

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15 hours ago, sailor mcgee said:

I am keen to get on the water, and i wonder a few things, firstly i am wondering if crt simply crush abandoned or unlicenced boats or do they auction them off for a pound or something?. there are bound to be some run down boats without a usable cabin, perhaps abandoned ones with just a hull that may be worth sand blasting survaying and painting? perhaps with a little luck avoid need for overplating - survey dependent on the thickness of the metal of course. 

id be interested to find out if anyone knows what they do with them?

If you can find a steel narrowboat for a couple of grand,you can bet that it will be well and truly knackered. To bring it back to usable condition will cost as much,and probably more than buying a decent used boat,and you may well be in for months of work,possibly years. 

You say you are keen to get on the water,well,,in my opinion,the quickest and cheapest way is to buy a fibreglass cruiser.

If you want a project boat,there are plenty advertised for less than£1000. A decent one  £3-5  thousand.

There are drawbacks cruising canals in a fibreglass cruiser,petrol outboard,a bugger to steer in windy weather,cold,unless some form of heating fitted,lots of scars on the hull from locks,[you'll need to buy your gelcoat filler wholesale] and usually fairly cramped inside.

If you are prepared to live with these drawbacks,then a fibreglass cruiser will be the quickest and cheapest way of getting afloat.

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2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

The fire damaged Fairline 22 is one of the boats that got damaged when a Freeman 22 caught fire on the fuel berth at Burton Waters last year. 

 

Not sure why it has not been  cut up and scrapped as there is nothing to salvage off it!

It was one of the narrow boats that i referred to, number 17 counting down. 

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6 minutes ago, BWM said:

It was one of the narrow boats that i referred to, number 17 counting down. 

Yes. NC was referring to a different boat/listing..

 

This one.

 

 

Fairline 22.PNG

Edited by MJG
To add pic.
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6 hours ago, billh said:

I know of two and possibly a third narrow boats built of greenhart  in Cheshire. At least one has greenhart rubbing bands . They do not suffer rot.Another recently re-built 70ft boat has  greenhart bottom boards re-claimed from a ship's deck. So, yep, very doable.

they tried wooden buttys back in the 1700's but found that plants scratched the bottom of the boats caused leakage, Im going offtopic now but if i where to build a wooden cannal boat i'd do it with a slow grown white oak keel, in an engineered form (laminated with other white oak on a opposing grain pattern, id use oak for the "ribs" (i know the swedish names only for parts of a boat) and the form. i'd line it in laminated oak / engineered wood, and add over boarding (sacraficial planks) in furu / a specific type of scandinavian pine that does not have knots/kvist any knots i did find id plug them with rosewood so it wont rot, between the furu and oak i'd add a matting impregnated with pine tar - this is important to stop shipworm, shipworm can eat the pine but they then see the tar sheeting and dont recognise it as food so dont eat the oak.
then add anti fouling. to the waterboards iäd add greenhart or a really hard wood, the inlet for the prop i'd use a type of wood thats deadly but self lubricating called pokenholts, this means there no need to lubricate the propshaft in the same way as if the hull where metal but without the maintanance. they use that on many modern ships as it works so well.

for the superstructure i would use the roots of the oak trees i had felled so as to create a knee, this is stronger than steel, and that would be connected between the ribs of the hull and the roof of the boat, it would come up and hold the wooden boards which i would use "drev" (its like a tar covered linen fibre that you pour hot pitch onto to make a seal - you must use a drevjärn to pack in the drev in a continual s shaped pattern once beck or bitchemen was poured onto this it would then make a water tight decking, (there are other alternatives like a form of siliconised putty but its not exactly traditional)

i could then paint it in darlbränd tjära (a mix of 1/3 raw linseed oil, one third turpintine and one third pine tar. - id personally choose serbian pine tar as chinese pine tar does not have a good continuity of quality) for the doors i'd use oak perhaps with a pine or walnut vanier, and a type of french varnish that is really nice but requires a lot of work its a french varnish tthat goes on REALLY thin (thirteen coats before you get anywhere with it, but my god its beautiful) i would make from raw ingrediants - i keep the recipie in my head and cant be bothered to translate it from swedish. for the tiller i'd make it from copper plated oak. with the copper being painted black to match the hull.

i'd add a little insulation in the form of wool fleece as this is natural and an o-k insulator. 

thats a rough outline of how i would build a wooden boat. i still know very little about wooden boats though and even less about canal boats..

Edited by sailor mcgee
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30 minutes ago, sailor mcgee said:

they tried wooden buttys back in the 1700's but found that plants scratched the bottom of the boats caused leakage, Im going offtopic now but if i where to build a wooden cannal boat i'd do it with a slow grown white oak keel, in an engineered form (laminated with other white oak on a opposing grain pattern, id use oak for the "ribs" (i know the swedish names only for parts of a boat) and the form. i'd line it in laminated oak / engineered wood, and add over boarding (sacraficial planks) in furu / a specific type of scandinavian pine that does not have knots/kvist any knots i did find id plug them with rosewood so it wont rot, between the furu and oak i'd add a matting impregnated with pine tar - this is important to stop shipworm, shipworm can eat the pine but they then see the tar sheeting and dont recognise it as food so dont eat the oak.
then add anti fouling. to the waterboards iäd add greenhart or a really hard wood, the inlet for the prop i'd use a type of wood thats deadly but self lubricating called pokenholts, this means there no need to lubricate the propshaft in the same way as if the hull where metal but without the maintanance. they use that on many modern ships as it works so well.

for the superstructure i would use the roots of the oak trees i had felled so as to create a knee, this is stronger than steel, and that would be connected between the ribs of the hull and the roof of the boat, it would come up and hold the wooden boards which i would use "drev" (its like a tar covered linen fibre that you pour hot pitch onto to make a seal - you must use a drevjärn to pack in the drev in a continual s shaped pattern once beck or bitchemen was poured onto this it would then make a water tight decking, (there are other alternatives like a form of siliconised putty but its not exactly traditional)

i could then paint it in darlbränd tjära (a mix of 1/3 raw linseed oil, one third turpintine and one third pine tar. - id personally choose serbian pine tar as chinese pine tar does not have a good continuity of quality) for the doors i'd use oak perhaps with a pine or walnut vanier, and a type of french varnish that is really nice but requires a lot of work its a french varnish tthat goes on REALLY thin (thirteen coats before you get anywhere with it, but my god its beautiful) i would make from raw ingrediants - i keep the recipie in my head and cant be bothered to translate it from swedish. for the tiller i'd make it from copper plated oak. with the copper being painted black to match the hull.

i'd add a little insulation in the form of wool fleece as this is natural and an o-k insulator. 

thats a rough outline of how i would build a wooden boat. i still know very little about wooden boats though and even less about canal boats..

That’s why just about 100% of narrowboats are now made from steel.  Typically 10mm for the base, 6mm upto the gunnel and 4mm for the high sides and roof with polyurethane spray foam insulation.  Even after a big bump they don’t leak.

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1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

That’s why just about 100% of narrowboats are now made from steel.  Typically 10mm for the base, 6mm upto the gunnel and 4mm for the high sides and roof with polyurethane spray foam insulation.  Even after a big bump they don’t leak.

this design would not leak. trust me. its the same system we used on the swedish ship gothenberg

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