Recommend me a battery setup

[Rory_d]

The time has come to start installing the power setup in the boat.

 

i have just bought a sterling combi inverter charger brand new.

 

i now need a battery bank,

 

I have no idea how much power I will need etc so please can I have recommendations on battery’s and how many would be advised.

 

the only 240v on the boat is washing machine and hoover and maybe a few small domestic appliances.

 

all lighting and TVs etc are 12 v, lights are leds. 

 

I already have a new starter battery so literally just need a leisure setup

[Robbo]

Will you be primaly on shore power or not?   What wattage is the combi and how many amps can the charger supply?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Rory_d said:

I have no idea how much power I will need etc so please can I have recommendations on battery’s and how many would be advised.

 

Have you read NONE of the hundreds of threads on here on battery sizing? First, you have to do a 'power audit' to find out how much power you will be consuming. Next, you work out how you will generate this amount of power to put back into your batteries. Only then can you work out what batteries to get. Tony's site tells you how to do a power audit. The power audit bit has been linked to several times this last few days in the battery threads IIRC.

[Guest]

There's a piece of string over the there. Let me go measure it and I'll get back to you.

 

While I'm doing that, as above... Do a power audit.

[Boater Sam]

Nah, forget audits, they are for the birds.

What you need are 6 of the biggest Trojan batteries you can afford. Then a pair of 150 Amp alternators to get them to charge, both with alternator controllers.

You need to connect them all up with biphase 95mm copper cables, proper terminations crimped on and insulated.

This will satisfy 99% of boat installations.

And you will need deep pockets.

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Nah, forget audits, they are for the birds.

What you need are 6 of the biggest Trojan batteries you can afford. Then a pair of 150 Amp alternators to get them to charge, both with alternator controllers.

You need to connect them all up with biphase 95mm copper cables, proper terminations crimped on and insulated.

This will satisfy 99% of boat installations.

And you will need deep pockets.

Better still a huge pair of lithium batteries and 300 amp alternators plus all the control gear for the lithums. As the lithiums will take exceptionally high charging currents double the cable size

 

 

 

Just to be clear for the OP - the above is a joke for others based on the fact you seem to have done very little research. One thing is sure and that is if your hoover or any power tools are really powerful you will run into voltdrop problems across the domestic batteries themselves if you only fit one or two so my guess, without sufficient details from you, you will probably need four batteries connected in parallel to minim is that voltdrop. The capacity of the batteries is open to question, as is how you will charge and monitor them.

 

Study and understand the battery and charging primer that is pinned at the top of the Building and Maintenance section. Also study the topic Charging and Electric in the New Boaters section. Only you have any idea about what you will fit on the boat, how you will use the electrical items and how the charging & battery monitoring will be organised so only you can do YOUR power audit and the associated charging calculations. After that you can decide what electrical equipment you can fit, remove, or simply never use plus how long and by what means you will need do charge for to put back the electricity you have used.

[Sea Dog]

7 hours ago, Rory_d said:

The time has come to start installing the power setup in the boat.

 

i have just bought a sterling combi inverter charger brand new.

 

i now need a battery bank,

 

I have no idea how much power I will need etc so please can I have recommendations on battery’s and how many would be advised.

 

the only 240v on the boat is washing machine and hoover and maybe a few small domestic appliances.

 

all lighting and TVs etc are 12 v, lights are leds. 

 

I already have a new starter battery so literally just need a leisure setup

Oh heck Rory, you appear to have started from the middle!  So, erm, on what basis did you choose the Inverter/charger?  

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, Rory_d said:

I have no idea how much power I will need etc so please can I have recommendations on battery’s and how many would be advised.

I am just starting out as a builder and need to carry all my tools, ladders, bricks etc and need a van/truck.

I have no idea how many tools I need to carry

I have no idea about the number or weight of bricks I need to carry

I have no idea how long the ladders will be

 

Can you please recommend a suitable van/truck for me ?

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, Rory_d said:

I already have a new starter battery so literally just need a leisure setup

I think you will need much more than that.

Having done your electrical audit you will know how much power you are going to use - now comes the "BIGGY"

 

How are you going to replace that power ?

 

And then comes the "SUPER BIGGY" - how will you know when to start replacing the power used ?

 

And then comes the "MONSTER BIGGY" - how will you know when to STOP replacing the power used ?

[Nut]

Op don't be to down hearted you will get all the help you need however most of the forumites are not baby sitters here is a fascinating post ,you will learn so much from this

 

I know I did .re read it until you are au fait with it I've read it at least 5 times

good luck

 

 

[Johny London]

The simplest set up to get you running would be a set of 4x100ah (or 110ah as they sometimes are) lead acid, or "leisure batteries." What I, and many others before me, failed to grasp at the outset, is the incredibly poor performance of said batteries.

The three things to watch out for are:

1. Do not leave the batteries even partially discharged for any length of time. It was suggested to me that getting back up to full charge just once a week would suffice, with an 80+% charge each day. This will wreck your batteries in weeks due to sulfation.

2. Understand that your batteries are very poor at taking up charge. From 60-80% they'll charge reasonably quickly, from 80-90% not very fast and getting the last few % back in will drive you nuts. So try and have a power source other than your engine to do that.

3. Try not to discharge to below 50-60%. This is commonly accepted wisdom, though the manufacturers frequently boast much lower figures (ie 30%!).

 

The % charge I'm talking about leads me onto another thing - monitoring charge/discharge. A whole topic in itself and plenty threads on here already, but you could try a Smartgauge in conjunction with an ammeter or you could try a Victron battery monitor gauge (that "counts" amps in/out). You will see that using your batteries well, means you are only going to have 40% of their actual theoretical capacity. Welcome to lead acid batteries.

 

A few on here have ventured into lithium batteries. I'd love to join them if I can figure it all out, the pro's are very rapid charging and no risk of damage due to being left partially charged. The cons are you can wreck them in an instant without the proper control circuitry.

 

Do spend time/money on getting your power right. If 4k+ doesn't bring you out in a sweat, look up Jono's system (Journey with Jono, Youtube). Otherwise a company called Relion seem to have lithium batteries that are more or less "drop in."

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Johny London said:

The simplest set up to get you running would be a set of 4x100ah (or 110ah as they sometimes are) lead acid, or "leisure batteries." What I, and many others before me, failed to grasp at the outset, is the incredibly poor performance of said batteries.

The three things to watch out for are:

1. Do not leave the batteries even partially discharged for any length of time. It was suggested to me that getting back up to full charge just once a week would suffice, with an 80+% charge each day. This will wreck your batteries in weeks due to sulfation.

2. Understand that your batteries are very poor at taking up charge. From 60-80% they'll charge reasonably quickly, from 80-90% not very fast and getting the last few % back in will drive you nuts. So try and have a power source other than your engine to do that.

3. Try not to discharge to below 50-60%. This is commonly accepted wisdom, though the manufacturers frequently boast much lower figures (ie 30%!).

 

The % charge I'm talking about leads me onto another thing - monitoring charge/discharge. A whole topic in itself and plenty threads on here already, but you could try a Smartgauge in conjunction with an ammeter or you could try a Victron battery monitor gauge (that "counts" amps in/out). You will see that using your batteries well, means you are only going to have 40% of their actual theoretical capacity. Welcome to lead acid batteries.

 

A few on here have ventured into lithium batteries. I'd love to join them if I can figure it all out, the pro's are very rapid charging and no risk of damage due to being left partially charged. The cons are you can wreck them in an instant without the proper control circuitry.

 

Do spend time/money on getting your power right. If 4k+ doesn't bring you out in a sweat, look up Jono's system (Journey with Jono, Youtube). Otherwise a company called Relion seem to have lithium batteries that are more or less "drop in."

 

Good luck.

 

 

Good post, but you didn't mention the problems he will have running a washing machine, or the 'tips' to pour hot water down the soap dispenser drawer to minimise the 'heater element usage', or the fact that his Inverter may not power a washing machine (either because of size or wave-form)

 

The OP is trying to 'arrive' somewhere without having yet departed.

[mrsmelly]

10 minutes ago, Johny London said:

The simplest set up to get you running would be a set of 4x100ah (or 110ah as they sometimes are) lead acid, or "leisure batteries." What I, and many others before me, failed to grasp at the outset, is the incredibly poor performance of said batteries.

The three things to watch out for are:

1. Do not leave the batteries even partially discharged for any length of time. It was suggested to me that getting back up to full charge just once a week would suffice, with an 80+% charge each day. This will wreck your batteries in weeks due to sulfation.

2. Understand that your batteries are very poor at taking up charge. From 60-80% they'll charge reasonably quickly, from 80-90% not very fast and getting the last few % back in will drive you nuts. So try and have a power source other than your engine to do that.

3. Try not to discharge to below 50-60%. This is commonly accepted wisdom, though the manufacturers frequently boast much lower figures (ie 30%!).

 

The % charge I'm talking about leads me onto another thing - monitoring charge/discharge. A whole topic in itself and plenty threads on here already, but you could try a Smartgauge in conjunction with an ammeter or you could try a Victron battery monitor gauge (that "counts" amps in/out). You will see that using your batteries well, means you are only going to have 40% of their actual theoretical capacity. Welcome to lead acid batteries.

 

A few on here have ventured into lithium batteries. I'd love to join them if I can figure it all out, the pro's are very rapid charging and no risk of damage due to being left partially charged. The cons are you can wreck them in an instant without the proper control circuitry.

 

Do spend time/money on getting your power right. If 4k+ doesn't bring you out in a sweat, look up Jono's system (Journey with Jono, Youtube). Otherwise a company called Relion seem to have lithium batteries that are more or less "drop in."

 

Good luck.

 

 

I would agree with  most of this. However I disagree re the incredibly poor performance bit. They will do the job admirably IF treated correctly. You MUST fully charge them after discharge or partial discharge DAILY this is no problem for most liveaboards but if you leave them as many do in the usual scenario they will fail pdq. For instance a hobby boater not on hook up takes boat out for weekend and stays out cruising a few hours for a couple of days but final day he moors lets say one our from his/her base. The last night whilst moored up they use all the usual stuff including fridge etc etc etc. That last day having depleted their batteries to say fifty percent they take a steady one hour trip back to base and turn engine off thinking nothing of it or thinking I am here weekend after next and when we take boat out that will fully charge the batteries.................WRONG.........you will have ruined batteries within weeks of this type of boating. Many other scenarios are out there.

[system 4-50]

Tip: Do only cold washes in your washing machine.  On the rare occasion you really need a hot wash, use a laundrette.

[philjw]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

or the fact that his Inverter may not power a washing machine (either because of size or wave-form)

Alan is here alluding to the fact that new washers and other things that have electronics controlling them do not take kindly to modified sine wave inverters. If your Stirling is sold as pure sine wave you should be OK but there are no guarantees.

 

22 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Tip: Do only cold washes in your washing machine.  On the rare occasion you really need a hot wash, use a laundrette.

This is because the heater uses a lot of power. You can arrange for the machine to run with warmed water from the calorifier by using a mixer valve in the cold feed or as suggested earlier pour hot into the soap tray. Method 1 means that you cannot do cold rinses but this has not been an issue for me.

[Johny London]

I think having a mixer for doing a hot fill is a good idea, on the one hand (of course, you'll have to draw off and waste all the cold that comes out first, which can be quite a bit if you are some distance from the calorifier). On the other, if you are running your engine 4 hours a day anyway - what's an extra hour once a week to heat the water in the washing machine? Although, you do need to up the revs a little at that point.

[system 4-50]

The point being, where do you see any evidence that a wash needs to be hot? In times of yore, hotness compensated for the lack of a decent detergent, and was definitely better than banging the washing on stones (which I have seen done in my younger days).  My late lamented Aunt didn't believe that anything got clean unless she boiled them, but that belief is no held anywhere these days.  Do you really need hot?  Or does it just give you a nice warm feeling?

[philjw]

27 minutes ago, Johny London said:

what's an extra hour once a week to heat the water in the washing machine? Although, you do need to up the revs a little at that point.

You would need a big enough inverter to run the heating element. This comes back to Alan De Enfield's earlier post. 

[LadyG]

I've got a washing machine.

 

 

 

 

It gives a better wash on hot for cotton type bedding and towels, etc,

For my cotton jeans etc  I use Vanish stain remover, its granules, granules would not work in cold.

I use modern detergents plus Dettol Laundry but no Lenor softener [I am in soft water area.]

I never use a cold wash, its just not going to do the job properly, even warm is so much better.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by LadyG

[system 4-50]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I've got a washing machine.

 

 

 

 

It gives a better wash on hot for cotton type bedding and towels, etc,

For my cotton jeans etc  I use Vanish stain remover, its granules, granules would not work in cold.

I use modern detergents plus Dettol Laundry but no Lenor softener [I am in soft water area.]

I never use a cold wash, its just not going to do the job properly, even warm is so much better.

 

You've tried and are able to see a definite difference?

[LadyG]

10 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

You've tried and are able to see a definite difference?

I wash my clothes regularly, lots of experimentation. A life time of experimentation.

You're not my old boss are  you, who went round my farmers telling them not to use hot water for their pipelines!

I tell you what, try washing your dinner dishes in cold water

There's a whole lot of science involved, but a hot wash  is better than a cold wash, the only drawback is that your favourite lambswool Pringle jumper will "felt" and shrink.

Edited December 4, 2018 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I wash my clothes regularly, lots of experimentation. A life time of experimentation.

You're not my old boss are  you, who went round my farmers telling them not to use hot water for their pipelines!

I tell you what, try washing your dinner dishes in cold water

There's a whole lot of science involved, but a hot wash  is better than a cold wash, the only drawback is that your favourite lambswool Pringle jumper will "felt" and shrink.

John went to visit his 90 year old Grandfather who lived in a very remote part of Scotland

 

John noticed a film-like substance on his plate, and questioned his grandfather asking,

'Are these plates clean?'

His grandfather replied:  'They're as clean as cold water can get ‘em. Just you go ahead and finish your meal, Sonny!'

 

For lunch, the old man made hamburgers.

Again, John was concerned about the plates, as his appeared to have tiny specks around the edge that looked like dried egg and asked: 'Are you sure these plates are clean?'

Without looking up the old man said: 'I told you before, Sonny, those dishes are as clean as cold water can get them. Now don't you fret, I don't want to hear another word about it!'

Later that afternoon, John was on his way to a nearby town and as he was leaving, his grandfather's dog started to growl, and wouldn't let him pass.

John yelled: 'Grandfather, your dog won't let me get to my car'.

 

Without diverting his attention from the football game he was watching on TV, the old man shouted:

 

 

'Coldwater, go lay down now, yah hear me?!'

[Tumshie]

11 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

You've tried and are able to see a definite difference?

The cold wash method is quite common in Aus/NZ I believe, and I've had a couple of friends come back complaining about how it doesn't work and how your clothes don't come clean and they all get recked. I also have some friends who are dedicated 30c washers and after very few washes their clothes never look clean.

 

I don't really know how detergents work but I think they only loosen the dirt and then hold onto it they don't kill the bacteria that stops your clothes from being really clean and smell free. 

 

The bacteria in your socks, underpants, and sweaty areas aren't killed off unless they are washed at higher temps such as 50c. 

[cereal tiller]

32 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I've got a washing machine.

 

 

 

 

It gives a better wash on hot for cotton type bedding and towels, etc,

For my cotton jeans etc  I use Vanish stain remover, its granules, granules would not work in cold.

I use modern detergents plus Dettol Laundry but no Lenor softener [I am in soft water area.]

I never use a cold wash, its just not going to do the job properly, even warm is so much better.

 

Vanish and similar Products are mainly Percarbonate of Soda which does work nicely in warm Water.good stuff and I use it in the Loo as well ,nicer than Elsan Blue!

 

[LadyG]

The  Dettol laundry stuff definitely does kill nasties, I use it mostly in the final rinse, but some in a quick warm wash if I think they need a good zap,

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by LadyG