boat project

[johnlondres]

I have been looking for a widebeam to live on. 

Recently I found a "project" boat that looks interesting but it is in a bit of a state.

A few questions really, is there a sort of AA inspection regime similar to when you buy a second hand car and is there an M.O.T. equivalent.

The boat needs an engine replacement which if I am honest I don't feel is a problem (it would give me peace of mind). Would between £10K - £15K do this for a Vetus 65.

It would be sensible to get it to a dry dock to be refurbished, are there any in or around central London?.

I have a team of skilled carpenters but would need a boat specialist for the electricals, any pointers??.

Any advice seasoned boaters and resi boat owners could give would be  much appeciated.

 

Please excuse my ignorance I've thought about this for years and have decided to give it a go.

 

Thanks

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, johnlondres said:

I have been looking for a widebeam to live on. 

Recently I found a "project" boat that looks interesting but it is in a bit of a state.

A few questions really, is there a sort of AA inspection regime similar to when you buy a second hand car and is there an M.O.T. equivalent.

The boat needs an engine replacement which if I am honest I don't feel is a problem (it would give me peace of mind). Would between £10K - £15K do this for a Vetus 65.

It would be sensible to get it to a dry dock to be refurbished, are there any in or around central London?.

I have a team of skilled carpenters but would need a boat specialist for the electricals, any pointers??.

Any advice seasoned boaters and resi boat owners could give would be  much appeciated.

 

Please excuse my ignorance I've thought about this for years and have decided to give it a go.

 

Thanks

Generaly speaking the term " Project " simply means a knackered boat that you can throw thousands and thousands of pounds at and get hundreds back. My advice would be dont bother.

[Mike Hurley]

AA inspection is a full survey by a marine surveyor, MOT is a BSC, boat safety certificate, done every 4 years.

[johnlondres]

Thanks Mike

Will get onto those things first

[Tumshie]

Not making a suggestion, but asking a question.

 

The RCR do engine inspections but I assume they are just on engines that you already own but could you use them to inspect and engine pre sale? would it be worth it if you were having a survey done? would it differ any from what a surveyor would do?

 

 

https://www.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/other-services/engine-inspections/

[bizzard]

If the skilled carpenters are not used to working with boats, they would need to swot up a bit as to whats really needed, like not permanently boxing in certain impoertant devices like inverters, electricals, plumbing, and gas installations. Many wide beam and narrowboats have been fitted out by skilled carpenters with no idea whats required on boats, ok in most cases the woodwork is quite beautiful and splendidly well done but can be quite impractical for boats. I often have murders trying to get to important things and sometimes have to half demolish some nice cabinet work to do so, when a simple decent size door or hatch could have been made,

[johnlondres]

Tumshie

 

Thanks for that but I wouldn't know.

If the engine is seized, bearings worn or other mechanical problems it would need to be stripped and rebuilt, it has worked with cars I've owned in the past. But that was when I had the time to D.I.Y. It would now be expensive so I think replacement is the best option depending on the structural integrity of the boat and what costs might be incurred there.

I have a reasonable budget to get it to my spec on the inside and out (exterior paintwork) but need to get the boat assessed first. 

 

Mike's pointers have been very helpful and informative.

 

Thanks again

Bizzard

 

Point taken......that would be down to my fitout directions....both access and innovative storage solutions would have to be taken into consideration.

 

Thanks

[Mac of Cygnet]

The elephant in the room, of course, is 'central London'.  London is apparently bursting with boats.  I have no local knowledge, but you'd best do a bit lot of research about where you are going to keep a widebeam.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, johnlondres said:

Point taken......that would be down to my fitout directions....both access and innovative storage solutions would have to be taken into consideration.

But the question is "do you know what you need to be able to access to meet both regular maintenance, and, the legal requirements of the Boat safety Scheme ?"

 

It may be a bit presumptuous, please don't take 'a fence' but just a couple of thoughts :

 

If you have a budget suitable to 'buy a project', pay London rates to have all of the cabinetry re-built, pay London rates to source and fit a replacement engine, pay somewhere to store it / work on it, is your budget not sufficient to buy a 'ready to go' boat ?

 

I would also suggest that concurrent with your boat search, you have a look at the availability of residential moorings in London - the prices may surprise you (Renting a mooring at £15,000 per annum is not unusual, £10,000+ very normal, and vacancies are always virtually 'nil').

Or, are you planning to 'continuously cruise' and not have a mooring ?

[Tumshie]

8 minutes ago, johnlondres said:

Thanks for that but I wouldn't know.

Sorry - I wasn't asking you specifically just the forum members in general. My question was inspired by you mention of the AA hence posting it here. 

 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

I picked up on the replacement engine, there are issues here. You want a Vetus, may I ask  why?

I assume the current engine does not work, in fact I assume very little works.

If the main reason for selecting this particular boat is that it is a project / or cheap / ................ would you buy anything else that you have no experience of on that basis? I know I wouldn't.

While your carpenters are working on your project, they could be making money for your business. Opportunity costs.

Edited December 2, 2018 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Sorry - I wasn't asking you specifically just the forum members in general. My question was inspired by you mention of the AA hence posting it here. 

 

 

 

 

You can specify what you want the surveyor to survey.

It can be :

Hull only

Hull & Internal equipment

Hull & 'Gear'

Hull & Engine / Gear box

Engine / gear box only

 

Or any combination thereof.

 

You obviously need to find a surveyor suitably experienced and qualified to do what you want - it would obviously be no use employing a 'hammer hitting a hull' surveyor to evaluate your engine with an oil analysis.

 

I bought one boat and had a full mechanical & engine survey - it got a 'clean bill of health'. 2 weeks later when I came to bring it to my moorings, the Turbo's 'blew' and it cost me over £20,000.

In the last 16 or 17 boats I have never employed a surveyor.

 

The last boat I bought, I refused a survey and the broker said he wouldn't sell a £200,000 boat to me without a survey. I still refused so he arranged for it to be surveyed (at his cost) in Italy as it was too big for any of the local yards in Croatia.

 

A survey may help a newbie, but you cannot rely on the information being accurate, and any faults that the surveyor doesn't find are covered in the 'small print' and you cannot take any legal action against the surveyor - I know I tried !!!

 

Pay your £800 for the survey and treat it as a 'guide' to the condition of the boat, it is not a guarantee.

[Tumshie]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You can specify what you want the surveyor to survey.

Thank you, Alan. ?

 

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I bought one boat and had a full mechanical & engine survey - it got a 'clean bill of health'. 2 weeks later when I came to bring it to my moorings, the Turbo's 'blew' and it cost me over £20,000.

? wow - just goes to show. 

[johnlondres]

Thanks Mac

 

I think I've got somewhere to park the boat......expensive but it will work.

[johnlondres]

Alan

 

Thanks your posts have been very helpful. 

When I decided to look for a boat the first thing I sourced was a place to put it and yes you're right £10 - £15K per annum is right on the button.

Buying a ready to go boat would be great but I can't find one either because none have, 1.) has the right configuration or 2.) has the sort of interior fit out I like.

 

So I could buy a boat to my spec or and remember this is my first time and I may be mad I could build it myself (using paid labour) get what I want and learn a lot along the way.

 

I like your posts so pls continue I am taking notes.

 

 

[BEngo]

If the engine really needs replacing then fit another of the same make and model.  Anything else is likely to require structural work on the bearers and mucho (costly)  hassle with controls, instruments, gearbox propellor and drive shaft.

Buying anything from Vetus is usually the most expensive way in the known universe.  Fortunately their engines are marinised versions of a standard plant engine made by Isuzu I think. Buy a new plant engine and swop over the marinising bits.

Do not even think of living on the boat whilst it is being refitted. This only ensures that the fire you do anything half the time available is spent moving "stuff" to get at the job to be done.

Allow for it all taking at least three times as long as you think it will.

N

[johnlondres]

Alan

 

Thanks your posts have been very helpful. 

When I decided to look for a boat the first thing I sourced was a place to put it and yes you're right £10 - £15K per annum is right on the button.

Buying a ready to go boat would be great but I can't find one either because none have, 1.) has the right configuration or 2.) has the sort of interior fit out I like.

 

So I could buy a boat to my spec or and remember this is my first time and I may be mad I could build it myself (using paid labour) get what I want and learn a lot along the way.

 

I like your posts so pls continue I am taking notes.

 

 

Lady G

 

The only reason I waned a Vetus is the like for like angle. No modifying mountings and positioning etc.

 

Thanks for your post

 

Bengo

 

That's useful info and would undoubtedly save money. Would a marine mechanic fitter be able to do that. I wouldn't be able.

 

Thanks

 

[johnlondres]

Bengo....advice taken I would not be intending to live on it in a dry dock......maybe in another city whilst it's being refitted.

[LadyG]

22 minutes ago, johnlondres said:

Thanks Mac

 

I think I've got somewhere to park the boat......expensive but it will work.

OK, sry to be negative again, but you see, every week someone comes on here with a similar plan, and they don't seem to think things through very well. It's your plan, its your money, and your lifestyle. Try using the search engine for general and specific queries.

I recently enquired about a boat in need of a bit of work two or three days. The marina would not allow ANY tradesmen or even the owner to work on the boat, it's their Terms and Conditions. You need to address a lot of these issues before you even consider a survey.

Edited December 2, 2018 by LadyG

[dmr]

Fitting out a brand new sailaway shell to your own specification would likely be a much better option and might even work out cheaper. Stripping out the current fitout and derusting the exposed steel can be very time consuming. If you put a new interior into a new boat then you have a new boat, but if you put a new interior into an old boat then you still have an old boat.

 

..............Dave

[johnlondres]

Lay G

 

Thanks again.........indeed...no the boat would need to be moved to a dry dock to have the work done....any suggestions??

I know I come across as bright eyed and bushy tailed with no idea of hat I'm getting into so I've spent months and months reading and investigating this. I saw this site and thought Here are some people who know what they are talking about so I'll ask some questions.

Everybody has been very helpful. Thanks 

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

Fitting out a brand new sailaway shell to your own specification would likely be a much better option and might even work out cheaper. Stripping out the current fitout and derusting the exposed steel can be very time consuming. If you put a new interior into a new boat then you have a new boat, but if you put a new interior into an old boat then you still have an old boat.

 

..............Dave

Precisely this.

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

Fitting out a brand new sailaway shell to your own specification would likely be a much better option and might even work out cheaper. Stripping out the current fitout and derusting the exposed steel can be very time consuming. If you put a new interior into a new boat then you have a new boat, but if you put a new interior into an old boat then you still have an old boat.

 

..............Dave

Strange as it seems, that is the same advice I recently got from one of the better boat fitters, and here was me thinking he could fit my little job in between his main workload, at least I thought it was a nice little job! 

Edited December 2, 2018 by LadyG

[johnlondres]

Thanks Dave and dmr

 

So would a 4 yr old boat be considered old??

[LadyG]

10 minutes ago, johnlondres said:

Thanks Dave and dmr

 

So would a 4 yr old boat be considered old??

Well,  by the time its sorted it could well be seven years old.

.......... incoming.............................

Don't be shy, john..............

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/ht-fabrications-60-widebeam/590193

Edited December 2, 2018 by LadyG
lit blue touch-paper