Jo Green Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Hi, We’re looking to fit an LPG hot water heater in our boat. We are moored in a marina so have mains electric. We were planning to get the Morco F11 but it’s no longer being manufactured. Can anyone recommend a decent equivalent? Looking for room sealed with balanced flue and electric ignition (no pilot light.) this is one option I’ve found.. https://www.amazon.co.uk/TTulpe-TTCM1230-C-Meister-P30-White/dp/B0744G9V9G Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) I'm sure you are, but are you aware that you need permanent 230v mains (ie Inverter on continuously when not on a shoreline) It may be worth while contacting the supplier / manufacture to confirm that the flue installation on a boat will not affect the warranty. (I know the Amazon 'stuff' says for boats and horseboxes) Did you have a previous LPG heater ? Was it room sealed ? As the flue length on a 'room sealed' heater is limited, have you considered where it will exit , and if the side of the boat, how you will protect the 'cap' from damage ? Just things to think about. The Morco 11 is still available (tis model is for 'mobile applications) Some models are for fixed installations only. Look how the flue length is restricted/limited and how much will be 'sticking out' of the side of the boat https://www.caravanaccessoryshop.co.uk/product/morco-f11e-room-sealed-lpg-water-heater/1240 £537 - not cheap. Power consumption is quoted as 35 watts - Is that a continuous rating or only when you press the ignition button ? (IF that is a continuous rating running it via an inverter off your batteries (for when not on land-line) will consume about 75Ah a day (that's pretty much requiring a dedicated 2x 100Ah battery bank and recharging it from 50% SoC EVERY DAY.) Edited December 1, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: I'm sure you are, but are you aware that you need permanent 230v mains (ie Inverter on continuously when not on a shoreline) It may be worth while contacting the supplier / manufacture to confirm that the flue installation on a boat will not affect the warranty. (I know the Amazon 'stuff' says for boats and horseboxes) Did you have a previous LPG heater ? Was it room sealed ? As the flue length on a 'room sealed' heater is limited, have you considered where it will exit , and if the side of the boat, how you will protect the 'cap' from damage ? Just things to think about. The Morco 11 is still available (tis model is for 'mobile applications) Some models are for fixed installations only. Look how the flue length is restricted/limited and how much will be 'sticking out' of the side of the boat https://www.caravanaccessoryshop.co.uk/product/morco-f11e-room-sealed-lpg-water-heater/1240 £537 - not cheap. Is it still available? It's out of stock at your link. According to http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-5/Water_Heaters.html all but the MP6 and MP11 models are obsolete. Edited December 1, 2018 by David Mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 minute ago, David Mack said: Is it still available? It's out of stock at your link. According to http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-5/Water_Heaters.html all but the P6 and P11 models are obsolete. Well spotted. I simply used the caravan shop as an example for the picture etc. They appear to be still available at a number of sources, here for example https://www.ebcmarine.com/lpg-heating/instantaneous-morco-water-heaters-kits-lpg-at-great-prices/morco-f11-el-lpg-boat-caravan-van-rv-instant-water-heater I got as far as putting one in 'my basket' so hopefully they exist. I'm not sure their statement is true (but I have been known to be wrong) Morco F11-EL room sealed LPG Water Heater Boat safety scheme regulations on inland waterways dictate that any new LPG water heater fitted must be "balanced flue". The term balanced flue means that the unit draws its combustion air from outside the cabin (down the twin wall flue in most cases) burns it and then exhausts it outside the cabin (up the flue). The Morco F11-EL is a balanced flue product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Hi Alan, thanks for your reply. I have done a comprehensive search and the Morco F11 isn’t available anymore. I actually ordered one from EBC and they called me the next day to tell me that they’re no longer being produced and aren’t available. Their website just needs updating. We don't currently have an LPG water heater on this boat. I had one on my last boat- not room sealed and with pilot light but I’m trying to increase safety this time round. Maybe not possible and will have to go for standard non-room sealed version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Have you got space on the boat to fit a calorifier with an immersion heater?? .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Hi Dave, we have space but because we live in a densely populated marina and have a big, loud engine, we don’t want to have to run it too frequently. We also have two very small children so the instant element of the LPG water heaters is appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Just now, Jo Green said: Hi Dave, we have space but because we live in a densely populated marina and have a big, loud engine, we don’t want to have to run it too frequently. We also have two very small children so the instant element of the LPG water heaters is appealing. You may be misunderstanding - install a calorifier AND immersion heater which gives 'almost free' water heating. Plugging into the mains keeps your batteries charged Powers all your 230v appliances Heats the 'cauliflower' and provides continuous / unlimited hot water. No need to run the engine EVER, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jo Green said: Hi Dave, we have space but because we live in a densely populated marina and have a big, loud engine, we don’t want to have to run it too frequently. We also have two very small children so the instant element of the LPG water heaters is appealing. Think Dave was suggesting an immersion heater in the calorifier. Crossed with Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 minute ago, rusty69 said: Think Dave was suggesting an immersion heater in the calorifier. Crossed with Alan Yup, even if your current calorifier can not take an immersion heater, replacing the calorifier will likely work out a bit cheaper than fitting a gas heater. A calorifier really is instant hot water (pipe delays excepted) as the hot water is ready and waiting. This route will likely give a better shower too....my only experience of instant gas heaters is in a house where you rarely get suitably hot water and a really good flow. We CC but spend a little time on a 230 volt hook up each year (usually in Liverpool) and the immersion heater approach works really well. ...............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, dmr said: Yup, even if your current calorifier can not take an immersion heater, replacing the calorifier will likely work out a bit cheaper than fitting a gas heater. A calorifier really is instant hot water (pipe delays excepted) as the hot water is ready and waiting. This route will likely give a better shower too....my only experience of instant gas heaters is in a house where you rarely get suitably hot water and a really good flow. We CC but spend a little time on a 230 volt hook up each year (usually in Liverpool) and the immersion heater approach works really well. ...............Dave We actually have both.They work well together.Ours is an old Paloma that has been in daily use for over 20 years, ETA. When I say together, not at the same time. Edited December 1, 2018 by rusty69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 30 minutes ago, rusty69 said: We actually have both.They work well together.Ours is an old Paloma that has been in daily use for over 20 years, ETA. When I say together, not at the same time. I can see the advantage of that, sometimes in winter we have to run the engine to make hot water rather than to charge the batteries. But how does it actually work? When you turn a tap on how do you decide whether to take hot water from the calorifier or the Paloma? .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, dmr said: I can see the advantage of that, sometimes in winter we have to run the engine to make hot water rather than to charge the batteries. But how does it actually work? When you turn a tap on how do you decide whether to take hot water from the calorifier or the Paloma? .............Dave When there is hot water available in the calorifier, that is used.When there is not, the Paloma gets used instead.A switch in the kitchen selects between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 43 minutes ago, rusty69 said: When there is hot water available in the calorifier, that is used.When there is not, the Paloma gets used instead.A switch in the kitchen selects between the two. Normally that switch will be a valve on the plumbing but with two pumps and extra plumbing it could be a switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: Normally that switch will be a valve on the plumbing but with two pumps and extra plumbing it could be a switch. Apologies for the ambiguity .It is indeed a valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, dmr said: Yup, even if your current calorifier can not take an immersion heater, replacing the calorifier will likely work out a bit cheaper than fitting a gas heater. A calorifier really is instant hot water (pipe delays excepted) as the hot water is ready and waiting. This route will likely give a better shower too....my only experience of instant gas heaters is in a house where you rarely get suitably hot water and a really good flow. We CC but spend a little time on a 230 volt hook up each year (usually in Liverpool) and the immersion heater approach works really well. ...............Dave I concur. Peeps who live in houses have more or less free electricity but still dont understand it. Living in a house of course is cheaper than living on a boat but electricity realy is cheap. Plugged in at present for the winter and billed monthly for lectric. Paid ours today for the 30 days of november. Immersion heater is on as is freezer and fridge ( mains of course ) then there is tv quite a lot a full size washing machine two or three times a week, pooters etc etc and the leccy bill works out at £1.36 a day. Simply impossible to get anywhere near that cost producing it yourself even if you forget the thousands of pounds worth of equipment needed in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: I concur. Peeps who live in houses have more or less free electricity but still dont understand it. Living in a house of course is cheaper than living on a boat but electricity realy is cheap. Plugged in at present for the winter and billed monthly for lectric. Paid ours today for the 30 days of november. Immersion heater is on as is freezer and fridge ( mains of course ) then there is tv quite a lot a full size washing machine two or three times a week, pooters etc etc and the leccy bill works out at £1.36 a day. Simply impossible to get anywhere near that cost producing it yourself even if you forget the thousands of pounds worth of equipment needed in the first place. Buts there nothing quite like the satisfaction of actually making yer own leccy and hot water. ? My kids are currently renovating a house and have an instant hot water boiler downstairs and an instant electric shower upstairs. Pretty high on their wish list is a big calorifier (sorry, hot water tank) in the attic. They also want a wood burning stove.....would have made more sense just to get a boat! ...............Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianh Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 This is a Morco replacement used in the mobile home industry :- Cointra Optima 5 Litre Lpg Water Heater - COB-5 Mine came from the Caravan Wharehouse (online or Ebay) It comes with parts for direct replacement fitting. It uses internal batteries for ignition as it does not have a permanent pilot light. The casing is slightly smaller and a bit light weight, but works well on my boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Thanks everyone for your advice. I will look into calorifier + immersion heater. I wonder how many watts it needs? We are only plugged into 16amps. I will also have a look at the potential Morco replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Jo Green said: Thanks everyone for your advice. I will look into calorifier + immersion heater. I wonder how many watts it needs? We are only plugged into 16amps. I will also have a look at the potential Morco replacement. A 1000 watt Immersion element (the 'normal' boating size) will take (in round figures) just 4 amps. Edited December 1, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, adrianh said: This is a Morco replacement used in the mobile home industry :- Cointra Optima 5 Litre Lpg Water Heater - COB-5 Mine came from the Caravan Wharehouse (online or Ebay) It comes with parts for direct replacement fitting. It uses internal batteries for ignition as it does not have a permanent pilot light. The casing is slightly smaller and a bit light weight, but works well on my boat. Of course though it is not room-sealed, which OP stated they wanted. Getting it installed by somene on a boat that is a permanent residence will have all the potential difficulties that get regularly discussed about that point. More practically too, a 5 litres a minute rate doesn't sound great to me. The regularly used Morco D61 is 6 litres a minute maximum, and IMO only just adequate when the water being fed in from the cold tank is at "winter" temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: Normally that switch will be a valve on the plumbing but with two pumps and extra plumbing it could be a switch. Mine's a switch. One of these, on the calorifier takeoff. http://www.surestop.co.uk/owners/ss-15-rpl/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 31 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said: Mine's a switch. One of these, on the calorifier takeoff. http://www.surestop.co.uk/owners/ss-15-rpl/ I'm curious how you can arrange a change over between a Morco feed and a calorifier feed with just a single on off valve. Surely you need to block off one source while enabling the othrr, so either need two valves operated in tandem, or a change-over L-port valve, (I have used both such arrangements on different boats). Can you please explain why if you are trying to take he hot feed from the calorifier, (presumably with your valve in the open position) you are not also drawing water through the Morco at the same time? (I'm assuming the two sources are "in parallel" with each other). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: I'm curious how you can arrange a change over between a Morco feed and a calorifier feed with just a single on off valve. Surely you need to block off one source while enabling the othrr, so either need two valves operated in tandem, or a change-over L-port valve, (I have used both such arrangements on different boats). Can you please explain why if you are trying to take he hot feed from the calorifier, (presumably with your valve in the open position) you are not also drawing water through the Morco at the same time? (I'm assuming the two sources are "in parallel" with each other). I knew someone would pull me up over that! There is a shutoff valve below the Morco in the galley too, but the cauliflower is at the opposite end of the bathroom, so the remote switch saves mauling under the bed to switch between the two. If I had replumbed it sensibly with one changeover valve, the calorifier feed to the shower would have needed to travel an extra 16 feet. It is a two-valve system, but one of the valves is 8 feet away from the other, hence the remote switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said: I knew someone would pull me up over that! There is a shutoff valve below the Morco in the galley too, but the cauliflower is at the opposite end of the bathroom, so the remote switch saves mauling under the bed to switch between the two. If I had replumbed it sensibly with one changeover valve, the calorifier feed to the shower would have needed to travel an extra 16 feet. It is a two-valve system, but one of the valves is 8 feet away from the other, hence the remote switch. Fair enough. My current system has two manual valves - just the easiest way of doing it on that particular boat, but obviously one needs to be opened at the same point the other gets closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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