Ribble Link Query

[Wanderer Vagabond]

52 minutes ago, GRLMK38 said:

Out of curiosity, did you declare 2'8"? I thought the maximum allowed by CRT is 2'4" and you have to sign a declaration to confirm this.  We had ruled out the trip on that basis as we are 2'9".

We booked online and the the record of our boat showed it to be within their supposed limit, although when we measured the draught at the skeg it was about 2'9". We didn't sign any declaration on anything to do with the draught. I suspect that if you tried to book online the automated system would block a booking that showed more than the permissible draught. I was also concerned about whether of not we'd make it but the only time we had any noticeable grounding was when we were coming back down from the last lock to pontoon where you have to wait for the tide above the sea lock. The limiting factor on that bit is the bridge and the pipe bridge by the treatment works. As we turned the corner towards the pipe bridge the boat tilted on a concrete obstruction under the water but then rode over it. We didn't have the same issue at all when going up so I suppose that it all depends upon what angle you approach the obstruction at. Other than that we had no depth issues at all (other than what you might get on any canal).

[john6767]

Yesterday one of the CRT guys warned us the lower section of Savick Brook has not been dredged for sometime, as the dredger that they use is widebeam and can not get round the corners there.  The rest of the Savick Brook has been dredged.  I think parts of Savick Brook were the most difficult part of the trip, even with a 50ft boat with just over 2 foot draft at the skeg.  I really is the ultimate muddy ditch!

 

I did not  understand why we had to wait so long on the pontoon, when we were let go there was masses of headroom under the bridge, we could easily have gone with 2 feet more water.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 hours ago, john6767 said:

Yesterday one of the CRT guys warned us the lower section of Savick Brook has not been dredged for sometime, as the dredger that they use is widebeam and can not get round the corners there.  The rest of the Savick Brook has been dredged.  I think parts of Savick Brook were the most difficult part of the trip, even with a 50ft boat with just over 2 foot draft at the skeg.  I really is the ultimate muddy ditch!

 

I did not  understand why we had to wait so long on the pontoon, when we were let go there was masses of headroom under the bridge, we could easily have gone with 2 feet more water.

Rather than the bridge, I think the limiting factor is the pipe bridge further up....

 

You can see the wet line on the wall of where the water reaches at high tide, and I think that around about where that other boat is, is where we grounded coming back down, no problems going up though. We were last going up, so the water level in the picture is as low as it gets, but would have been higher for boats ahead of us (assuming that they shut the tidal lock whilst the water level is still higher than the rotating lock gate)

[john6767]

2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Rather than the bridge, I think the limiting factor is the pipe bridge further up....

 

You can see the wet line on the wall of where the water reaches at high tide, and I think that around about where that other boat is, is where we grounded coming back down, no problems going up though. We were last going up, so the water level in the picture is as low as it gets, but would have been higher for boats ahead of us (assuming that they shut the tidal lock whilst the water level is still higher than the rotating lock gate)

Very possibly that is the limit, I did not notice that at all, so it can’t have been very low.  We were in the first pair of boats going up, and left as soon as we’re were given the ok by CRT.  At the end of the day it all worked well and the two CRT guys did a great job.

 

Now the problem is, is it ever going to stop raining up here.

 

 

[john6767]

Intesting (well to me it is) fact.  Tonight we are the most northern boat on the system.

 

[The Bearwood Boster]

We're doing the link on the 16th,already excited.*Note to self-you need to get out more ...

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, john6767 said:

Intesting (well to me it is) fact.  Tonight we are the most northern boat on the system.

 

You're not at the most northerly point though, there's a good boat length between you and the top  cos that's us at the most northerly point on the Lancaster (photo taken from the Sanitary Station you are opposite.

 

Seriously though it's a cracking canal, are you staying there the night? After we walked up the Tewitfield Flight we decided that we didn't want the pleasure of being 60' from the M6 motorway, whether it is quieter on a Saturday night/Sunday Morning you'll be able to tell us.

 

[john6767]

27 minutes ago, The Bearwood Boster said:

We're doing the link on the 16th,already excited.*Note to self-you need to get out more ...

We may see you up here then!  Despite all the stuff that is mad busy, there are basically no moving boats, other than around Garstang, at least that is my reading of it so far.  Any way heading south tomorrow, as it is the only way we can go.

[john6767]

On 03/08/2019 at 20:58, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You're not at the most northerly point though, there's a good boat length between you and the top  cos that's us at the most northerly point on the Lancaster (photo taken from the Sanitary Station you are opposite.

 

Seriously though it's a cracking canal, are you staying there the night? After we walked up the Tewitfield Flight we decided that we didn't want the pleasure of being 60' from the M6 motorway, whether it is quieter on a Saturday night/Sunday Morning you'll be able to tell us.

 

Apologies I had somehow missed your post.  You of course correct in that photo we are not at the northern most point but as there was no boat there we were the northern most boat.  Of course I did take the boat right to the end.  We stayed overnight, but we had spent a long time at 5he pub, so slept ok, it is noisy though.

 

at the end, the boat there was not there when the other photo was taken!

 

[john6767]

Today we came back over the link, it was a little more challenging that when we went up.  It was a very big tide today and we had a strong headwind going down the Ribble, and a lot of chop as we got close to Ashland lamp.  Against the tide we were only doing 3mph, but as on the way up I did not push it any harder than I would on any river.

 

it was interesting that the river Douglas made a level with the canal and all 5 boats were able to go through the lock with both ends open.

 

[Philip]

Just a few questions about this, I'm thinking about doing this trip but the dates I have in mind would mean making the return 'down passage' along the link towards Tarleton 5 days after the 'up passage' (towards Preston). Would this be enough time to do all of the Lancaster and the Glasson Branch, assuming 9-12 hour cruising days?

 

Also, after the down passage date towards Tarleton which I have in mind, the next available down passage date is a couple of weeks later. If bad weather means they don't operate the down passage on the date I'm looking to book, would I be stuck on the Lancaster for 2 weeks or do they normally postpone the passage to the closest day with suitable weather conditions?

 

Finally, my boat has a 16hp engine with a rather small prop (12x8), meaning it struggles to go above 4mph on shallow canals. When I went upstream on the Severn in green conditions last June (after dry weather), it was a struggle to go above 3mph without the engine getting too hot. I've heard that there is a tow available to book for the Douglas-Ribble tidal bit, so based on this would it be advisable to book the tow?

Edited Monday at 14:56 by Philip

[john6767]

I think it would be a bit of a rush, but not impossible.  You certainly could do the Lancaster end to end (of at least Ribble Link basin to Tewitfield) in 2 days, but it seems like a bit of a rush, however the locals do like speeding you can act like a local and gun it.  Whilst the Glasson Branch is only 6 locks, they are not exactly the easiest to do, so it would be better to spend a night in the Glasson basin if you can.

 

I believe they will try to do a cancelled passage the following day if possible, we were looking like having to do that for our up passage, but the wind dropped in the morning and we were able to go as planned.

 

Your boat does not sound ideal, so you may be too slow on the up passage at least, which means a diversion to Preston and complete the crossing the next day, so again that would be an issue if you are pushed for time.

[Philip]

14 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I think it would be a bit of a rush, but not impossible.  You certainly could do the Lancaster end to end (of at least Ribble Link basin to Tewitfield) in 2 days, but it seems like a bit of a rush, however the locals do like speeding you can act like a local and gun it.  Whilst the Glasson Branch is only 6 locks, they are not exactly the easiest to do, so it would be better to spend a night in the Glasson basin if you can.

 

I believe they will try to do a cancelled passage the following day if possible, we were looking like having to do that for our up passage, but the wind dropped in the morning and we were able to go as planned.

 

Your boat does not sound ideal, so you may be too slow on the up passage at least, which means a diversion to Preston and complete the crossing the next day, so again that would be an issue if you are pushed for time.

 

Thanks for the info. If I go for it, I've decided I'll book the up passage 3 weeks before the down passage and take separate annual leave weeks. It'll still give me about 7 days cruising on the Lancaster and hopefully there'll be a marina somewhere where I can leave the boat for the remaining couple of weeks before returning to the L&L.

 

If I decide to take 2 days for the up passage and make use of Preston marina, do you think I should be ok going under my own power rather than booking the tow? That'd be my preference, I don't mind having to use Preston marina if I give myself enough time, just want to be sure I have enough power to make headway whilst punching the tide!

Edited Monday at 16:45 by Philip

[john6767]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

 

Thanks for the info. If I go for it, I've decided I'll book the up passage 3 weeks before the down passage and take separate annual leave weeks. It'll still give me about 7 days cruising on the Lancaster and hopefully there'll be a marina somewhere where I can leave the boat for the remaining couple of weeks before returning to the L&L.

 

If I decide to take 2 days for the up passage and make use of Preston marina, do you think I should be ok going under my own power rather than booking the tow? That'd be my preference, I don't mind having to use Preston marina if I give myself enough time, just want to be sure I have enough power to make headway whilst punching the tide!

When we were there we did struggle a bit to find marina space, there are not many marinas on the Lancaster.  We did get into Barton Grange in the end, but it is the only time anywhere on the system I have not easily found a short term mooring in a marina.  I would enquire about the mooring as soon as you can.

 

I think only you can make the decision on the crossing and the boats capability, but only being able to do 3mph on the Severn I would say puts very much at the low end, as you are pushing the tide for much of the trip with say 30 mins in the middle at slack water.

 

Have you watched some of the YouTube videos on the Ribble link, here is a selection if you have not, there are many more.  Bear in mind lots of the YouTube stuff is very sensationalist as that is good for views, and add revenue!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

The days in the advertised schedule are pretty much the only dates when the tides work for a crossing. We had a problem when last there (a couple of years back) when our crossing was cancelled the day before as key staff had Covid. We were only offered the next available date by which it was meant one that had not already been advertised and booked - that is, we went to the back of the Q. When I last looked, CaRT were unable to change the tides to suit our convenience!

[Philip]

Thanks for the video links, the guys on the Foxes Afloat give a good summary about how to tackle it. The CRT say that you can mention a smaller engine & prop in the booking notes and can arrange to let you go first if it's likely to take longer, and there's always Preston Marina as a backup option. Providing the boat can make headway against the tide then it should be OK, it's only 25ft so the 16hp engine size is about right for that length. I have an engine coolant air heater which should assist with the cooling at higher revs.

[TheBiscuits]

Because of the shape of the rivers and the water flows, your hardest bit is going to be coming out of Tarleton lock and heading downriver against the incoming tide towards Douglas boatyard.  Which helpfully is where the tug boat moors!

 

If you fancy booking a tow, it was under a hundred quid last year.  I'd recommend having the tug pilots number in your phone just in case you have difficulty out on the wide bit but just try it under your own power.  

 

CRT keep an eye on your progress during the crossing and will tell you if you need to divert to Preston.

 

[Philip]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Because of the shape of the rivers and the water flows, your hardest bit is going to be coming out of Tarleton lock and heading downriver against the incoming tide towards Douglas boatyard.  Which helpfully is where the tug boat moors!

 

If you fancy booking a tow, it was under a hundred quid last year.  I'd recommend having the tug pilots number in your phone just in case you have difficulty out on the wide bit but just try it under your own power.  

 

CRT keep an eye on your progress during the crossing and will tell you if you need to divert to Preston.

 

 

Thanks, good to know that the tug is available at a point where I'll have had a chance to get a feel for the capability of the boat. Hopefully she'll be capable under her own power, as I can imagine it's a lot more fun to steer your boat across than be towed.

 

I've booked an up passage for early July and return down in late July, both have a passage window on the next day, so that'll give some leeway if I have to go into Preston.   

[TheBiscuits]

20 minutes ago, Philip said:

 

Thanks, good to know that the tug is available at a point where I'll have had a chance to get a feel for the capability of the boat. Hopefully she'll be capable under her own power, as I can imagine it's a lot more fun to steer your boat across than be towed.

 

I've booked an up passage for early July and return down in late July, both have a passage window on the next day, so that'll give some leeway if I have to go into Preston.   

 

I've not been towed, but I have seen boats be towed past me on the Ribble.  At waterskiing speeds - it looks fun!

 

You're very unlikely to divert to Preston on the way back off the Lancaster (unless you deliberately want to go there.)

 

The timing limit for the Ribble Link is actually the depth of water over the cill at the rotating sea lock, so if you're taking too long coming from Tarleton the tide ebbs too low to navigate that bit.

 

On the way back to Tarleton it's the first thing you cross - you'll be held on the pontoon until it's deep enough, then off you go.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 14:10 by TheBiscuits
Stupid mobile phone

[Peugeot 106]

The pontoon at Douglas Boatyard is handy if you are a bit slow as you can wait for the next tide and get a head start on everybody else providing there is another scheduled crossing the following day.  But you will take the ground between tides so make sure underneath the boat is level you don’t want to roll over. The tide is a lot kinder on neaps rather than springs

i have been towed several times by Gnat. Jimmy is a great bloke but it is nerve wracking as you need to concentrate like mad on the steering. It’s a lot easier on the nerves going under your own steam.

Mine is the small blue boat being towed in the video. The bow wave is huge hence the difficulty steering. It feels horrible

I’d  like to put a word in for the CRT people on this passage. They are very helpful and patient

[Mike Todd]

7 hours ago, Philip said:

Thanks for the video links, the guys on the Foxes Afloat give a good summary about how to tackle it. The CRT say that you can mention a smaller engine & prop in the booking notes and can arrange to let you go first if it's likely to take longer, and there's always Preston Marina as a backup option. Providing the boat can make headway against the tide then it should be OK, it's only 25ft so the 16hp engine size is about right for that length. I have an engine coolant air heater which should assist with the cooling at higher revs.

Preston Dock is not an automatic backup. If you miss the Link entrance then you may not have a lot of time to get into Preston before it closes. We were diverted on our first visit and they staff at Preston were on the phone to us to get us to hurry along! When we got there we could see why. Luckily we did not have to spend the night on the mud in the lower lock!

4 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I've not been towed, but I have seen boats be towed past me on the Ribble.  At waterskiing speeds - it looks fun!

 

You're very unlikely to divert to Preston on the way back off the Lancaster (unless you deliberately want to go there.)

 

The timing limit for the Ribble Link is actually the depth of water over the cill at the rotating sea lock, so if you're taking too long coming from Tarleton the tide ebbs too low to navigate that bit.

 

On the way back to Tarleton it's the first thing you cross - you'll be held on the pontoon until it's deep enough, then off you go.

 

 

The timing is also about having enough head room on the adjacent road bridge. Which is why you often have quite a wait on the pontoon as conditions for one are not the same as the other! Beware the staff opening the rotating lock too quickly to let you out - we had a rather alarming experience as a result!

[TheBiscuits]

17 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The timing is also about having enough head room on the adjacent road bridge.

 

Yes, but that's not a potential problem.  Once you are across the sea lock cill you are either on your way on a flooding tide or you are moored between two locks and putting the kettle on.

 

I know a few people who have had to wait 24 hours on the pontoon as weather conditions prevented their scheduled passages.

 

21 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

When we got there we could see why. Luckily we did not have to spend the night on the mud in the lower lock!

 

Yeah, if you miss the timing to get into Preston Docks it's quite important to moor over the deep water channel on the Bullnose.  There's an alarming slant on the drying mud by the river bank.

 

Tie to the floats/risers please - tying to the ladder is a very bad idea on a 25 foot tidal range ...

 

Oh, and if you have a dog, it had better be either very small or very good at climbing ladders!

[Mike Todd]

13 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Yes, but that's not a potential problem.  Once you are across the sea lock cill you are either on your way on a flooding tide or you are moored between two locks and putting the kettle on.

 

I know a few people who have had to wait 24 hours on the pontoon as weather conditions prevented their scheduled passages.

 

 

Yeah, if you miss the timing to get into Preston Docks it's quite important to moor over the deep water channel on the Bullnose.  There's an alarming slant on the drying mud by the river bank.

 

Tie to the floats/risers please - tying to the ladder is a very bad idea on a 25 foot tidal range ...

 

Oh, and if you have a dog, it had better be either very small or very good at climbing ladders!

Each time we have been held on the pontoon or quite some time for the headroom under the bridge to be OK.

 

I must admit that I do not fully understand all of the complexities of the tides in this crossing but I do realize that because you have to go down one rive and up the other it is usually a matter of small differences in big numbers. Also, the height and depth requirements at the start of the Link add to it. The windows are often quite short which is why there are usually only a relatively small number of slots that cannot be expanded.

[Philip]

The Preston Dock option seems safe enough then even if using the bullnose, providing I moor in the right place & the right way. No dogs! 

 

The 'start time' for the up passage is around 08:30 and the 'tide time' is 10:30. Does this mean that you are you expected to be at Savick Brook by the tide time, so in this case 2 hours to travel from Tarleton to the sea lock?

Edited yesterday at 09:45 by Philip

[john6767]

22 minutes ago, Philip said:

The Preston Dock option seems safe enough then even if using the bullnose, providing I moor in the right place & the right way. No dogs! 

 

The 'start time' for the up passage is around 08:30 and the 'tide time' is 10:30. Does this mean that you are you expected to be at Savick Brook by the tide time, so in this case 2 hours to travel from Tarleton to the sea lock?

I think it is expected that high time will be around Astland lamp, bepening on the strength of the tide.  We were about half an hour up the Ribble before we felt the effect of the outgoing tide, and by the time we got to the turn 8th Savick brook we had slowed by a couple of miles per hour.  We were first boat, but a long way, and we waited on the pontoon for well over an hour, which by that time the other boats had arrived, before we were allowed to proceed under the bridge and up Savick brook.