Red Diesel Update - Meeting 20/11/18

[aracer]

23 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Just pick the bits out you think matter such as the tivia of trade. You think its fine then that some non country can dictate our taxation laws then? just as a for instance!! 

Yeah, because trade is such an irrelevant thing really compared to the nationality of who decides on our laws. Do you really think not trading with the EU is a realistic option? Do you have any concept of how our economy works? Personally I reckon the most important things are the ones which most directly affect our quality of life, though you're free to hold a different opinion.

 

I note you're not denying being motivated by xenophobia. 

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, aracer said:

Yeah, because trade is such an irrelevant thing really compared to the nationality of who decides on our laws. Do you really think not trading with the EU is a realistic option? Do you have any concept of how our economy works? Personally I reckon the most important things are the ones which most directly affect our quality of life, though you're free to hold a different opinion.

Why do you think that we won't be able to trade with the EU as a non-member? 

[frahkn]

32 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Just pick the bits out you think matter such as the tivia of trade. You think its fine then that some non country can dictate our taxation laws then? just as a for instance!! 

 

Due to the nature of my past employment, I have probably met more chancellors and treasury ministers than most other contributors to this thread. None the less, my tax has always been decided by strangers whom I don't know. Whether their offices are in Whitehall or Brussels means little to me - to think otherwise is just kidding ourselves.

[aracer]

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Why do you think that we won't be able to trade with the EU as a non-member? 

I don't. Mrs melly however appears to think we don't need to.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

Strongly disagree. I am a muppet not a xenophobe.

Ahh   Politics on Christmas day, maybe the forum is not dead after all.

 

I am saddened that supporting Brexit is seen as the domain of the far right and the uneducated as I am neither. I was listening to the radio 4 program on Brexit yesterday whilst doing some boaty plumbing and it was very interesting. I had forgotten that Tony Benn was such a Brexiteer, and that his predictions have largely come true.

 

So George Osborne (not a lefty) is a remainer, whilst Benn, one of the greatest lefty thinkers of recent years, and Mr Corbyn (A lefty but Not exactly a Benn thinker) are both Brexiteers.  Maybe those who worship money want to stay, but those who value democracy, integrity and freedom want to go.

 

I wonder what My Benns view would be on Red Diesel?  (dave cunningly gets back on topic ?)

 

................Dave

[Dr Bob]

47 minutes ago, frahkn said:

 

 Whether their offices are in Whitehall or Brussels means little to me - to think otherwise is just kidding ourselves.

I think that is the big difference between the ins and outs.

It means a lot to me that they are in Whitehall (or wherever the decisions are made) and not Brussels. We do not have the say that the UK wants if it is in Brussels. If 26 other countries want X and the UK want Y, what will we get? Leave the club and we decide. Que another 5000 posts to debate.

[Bee]

13 minutes ago, dmr said:

Ahh   Politics on Christmas day, maybe the forum is not dead after all.

 

So George Osborne (not a lefty) is a remainer, whilst Benn, one of the greatest lefty thinkers of recent years, and Mr Corbyn (A lefty but Not exactly a Benn thinker) are both Brexiteers.  Maybe those who worship money want to stay, but those who value democracy, integrity and freedom want to go

 

................Dave

Hooray, A festive row! Nothing much on the telly just yet. Funny innit, I value democracy, integrity and freedom so I don't want to be manipulated by the right,, Boris etc and I don't want to be manipulated by the left, Corbyn and the rest and I value peace in Europe so I want to be part of a stable and united EU as I fear Russian meddling in the Baltic and Balkan states much more than accepting EU rules - many of which have kept us from the worst excesses of Thatcher. Red diesel? In the great scheme of things its not a big deal. I've lost far, far more because of the Brexit stuff in the £ and FTSE crash.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, aracer said:

Yeah, because trade is such an irrelevant thing really compared to the nationality of who decides on our laws. Do you really think not trading with the EU is a realistic option? Do you have any concept of how our economy works? Personally I reckon the most important things are the ones which most directly affect our quality of life, though you're free to hold a different opinion.

 

I note you're not denying being motivated by xenophobia. 

Its not a case of being xenophobic. Theres nowt wrong with Johny Foreigner at all. Its just that I and other leave voters in the majority understand we live in the best country in the world so need non of being dictated to by lesser countries or in the case of the eu, non countries. Now its nearly beer time so I must join in with the other four leave voters in the house, all are smiling and loving the best country in the World.

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Its not a case of being xenophobic. Theres nowt wrong with Johny Foreigner at all. Its just that I and other leave voters in the majority understand we live in the best country in the world so need non of being dictated to by lesser countries or in the case of the eu, non countries. Now its nearly beer time so I must join in with the other four leave voters in the house, all are smiling and loving the best country in the World.

I believe that recent developments in political correctness dictate that you must no longer acknowledge that you live in the best country in the world. ?

 

..............Dave (currently in Yorkshire, the best county in the best country in the world?)

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

I believe that recent developments in political correctness dictate that you must no longer acknowledge that you live in the best country in the world. ?

 

..............Dave (currently in Yorkshire, the best county in the best country in the world?)

Yow Dave............I too am up in Gods county for Christmas...............must get to that beer ?

[wandering snail]

On 30/11/2018 at 13:14, Mac of Cygnet said:

What do all the boaters in the rest of the EU do?  Just pay the full whack on white diesel without complaint?  Or does nobody heat their boats over there?

Sadly, yes in the Netherlands where the government forced the Dutch in to gas c/h years ago as they have enormous shares in fracking over there. The only source of diesel for the Dutch is 'white' road diesel for all users. In Belgium it is still possible to get 'red' for anything other than propulsion, unless you run a commercial barge. They can use red for everything. We have a front tank as well as a back one especially to keep the two types separate when we were there in case we were boarded and dipped.

[frahkn]

15 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I think that is the big difference between the ins and outs.

It means a lot to me that they are in Whitehall (or wherever the decisions are made) and not Brussels. We do not have the say that the UK wants if it is in Brussels. If 26 other countries want X and the UK want Y, what will we get? Leave the club and we decide. Que another 5000 posts to debate.

 

The desires of the "other 26" or those of the UK will not always - perhaps not often - coincide with my (or indeed your) desires. A decision taken in Whitehall or in Brussels may agree with my wishes or it may not but I have no reason to believe that I stand a better chance with Whitehall. One group of semi-competent bureaucrats is much like another as far as I'm concerned.

 

Not to mention that if 26 guys want X while only 1 wants Y, this must raise the possibility that X is the better choice. It's similar with sovereignty; if it is so important why are 26 countries not more worried about it?

[mrsmelly]

6 hours ago, frahkn said:

 

The desires of the "other 26" or those of the UK will not always - perhaps not often - coincide with my (or indeed your) desires. A decision taken in Whitehall or in Brussels may agree with my wishes or it may not but I have no reason to believe that I stand a better chance with Whitehall. One group of semi-competent bureaucrats is much like another as far as I'm concerned.

 

Not to mention that if 26 guys want X while only 1 wants Y, this must raise the possibility that X is the better choice. It's similar with sovereignty; if it is so important why are 26 countries not more worried about it?

Perhaps the voters in those countries havnt been given an opportunity yet to voice there concerns re that matter???

As for mixing even more such as another 27 countries worth of politicians in the mix it only worsens matters for us. For instance if we were under physical attack I would rather I was taking on one army rather than 27 lets face it non of the political element are in for anything other than their own gains.

[furnessvale]

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Perhaps the voters in those countries havnt been given an opportunity yet to voice there concerns re that matter???

 

But other countries HAVE been given the opportunity to voice their concerns and, just like the UK, have been told by the EU to go back and vote again until they come up with the CORRECT answer!

 

George

[aracer]

On 25/12/2018 at 10:56, mrsmelly said:

Its not a case of being xenophobic. Theres nowt wrong with Johny Foreigner at all. Its just that I and other leave voters in the majority understand we live in the best country in the world

"I'm not a xenophobe, but..." ???

[aracer]

On 25/12/2018 at 10:17, Dr Bob said:

I think that is the big difference between the ins and outs.

ISTM that the big difference is that the outs (those on both sides of the political spectrum, hence Benn and Corbyn) are largely ideological, whilst the ins are largely pragmatic - recognising that where the decisions are made is far, far less important than the economic benefits of membership. I'm no fan of a lot of what goes on in the EU, but I recognise the advantages of being a member to the actual quality of life of people in the UK - those suggesting leaving is economically beneficial are delusional.

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, aracer said:

"I'm not a xenophobe, but..." ???

I will explain. You obviously have no understanding of the English language. A xenophobe is someone who has a disliking of Johny Foreigner. I dont dislike them at all. Its not relevant to why I want my government in charge of my country. I actualy have Johny Foreigner mates but they dont try telling my country what it can and cannot do.

[aracer]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

I will explain. You obviously have no understanding of the English language. A xenophobe is someone who has a disliking of Johny Foreigner.

Thanks for the incorrect definition ???

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, aracer said:

ISTM that the big difference is that the outs (those on both sides of the political spectrum, hence Benn and Corbyn) are largely ideological, whilst the ins are largely pragmatic - recognising that where the decisions are made is far, far less important than the economic benefits of membership. I'm no fan of a lot of what goes on in the EU, but I recognise the advantages of being a member to the actual quality of life of people in the UK - those suggesting leaving is economically beneficial are delusional.

As usual you perfect remainers think money first, second and above all and everything else. Us who are not so perfect but who are in the majority put more substantial matters before mere economics.

1 minute ago, aracer said:

Thanks for the incorrect definition ???

Obviously its a battle of wits you are looking for so I will bow out and leave you to your silly little world as I dont wish to battle with someone who is so obviously unarmed.

[aracer]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

As usual you perfect remainers think money first, second and above all and everything else. Us who are not so perfect but who are in the majority put more substantial matters before mere economics.

As I pointed out, we're pragmatists - explain to me which "more substantial matters" have a greater impact on people's quality of life? Though I note that there are plenty of disadvantages to leaving other than economics.

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Obviously its a battle of wits you are looking for so I will bow out and leave you to your silly little world as I dont wish to battle with someone who is so obviously unarmed.

From what I can see I'm doing just fine at unarmed combat - maybe you should try using your weapons to check definitions before posting them on here...

[peterboat]

55 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

As usual you perfect remainers think money first, second and above all and everything else. Us who are not so perfect but who are in the majority put more substantial matters before mere economics.

Obviously its a battle of wits you are looking for so I will bow out and leave you to your silly little world as I dont wish to battle with someone who is so obviously unarmed.

Tim its pointless arguing with a loser! They will do anything to take away our freedom in exchange for trade with the EU, and a jackboot on our head to make sure we vote the right way! The red diesel thing is a great example of pointless eurocracy whats it got to do with them what we use in our boats? Clearly a lot because they wasted our money taking us to court a couple of times for it, I for one dont want to be part of such a petty organisation, truly childish and run buy a drunkard to boot

[ditchcrawler]

I wonder how much the EU in total, UK included have spent on the red diesel/pleasure craft fight against how much duty would have been collected

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wonder how much the EU in total, UK included have spent on the red diesel/pleasure craft fight against how much duty would have been collected

Well as it was money that Eurocrats didnt have to earn why would they care how much they waste? after all it just means that they will ask all the countries for more money for even more pointless eurocracy

[carlt]

On 25/12/2018 at 09:27, frahkn said:

 

Due to the nature of my past employment, I have probably met more chancellors and treasury ministers than most other contributors to this thread. 

 

Did you sell off-shore bank accounts? 

[aracer]

20 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Tim its pointless arguing with a loser!

??? - on the contrary it's pointless arguing with an ideologue - though it's quite amusing pointing out what they are and watching them try and deny it.