Engine just cut out

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

And when you do eventually get them out, remember they're definitely not for the pan.....

 

 

 

The bit that puzzles me is how all the carp get in there in the first plaice...

 

 

[bizzard]

Tip.  If you have the usual type of tank breather that sticks up make a little shelter for it, as I'm sure rain water can get past the flame proof gause bit. I made a little shelter from a fish paste jar, upturned and stuck on to the breathers top with a blob of silicone. Make sure there is a gap under the jars rim so the breather can still breath.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Tip.  If you have the usual type of tank breather that sticks up make a little shelter for it, as I'm sure rain water can get past the flame proof gause bit. I made a little shelter from a fish paste jar, upturned and stuck on to the breathers top with a blob of silicone. Make sure there is a gap under the jars rim so the breather can still breath.

 

Fish paste always worries me. Do they grind up the whole fish to make the paste? I bet the do....

[philjw]

17 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Fish paste always worries me. Do they grind up the whole fish to make the paste? I bet the do....

You could use one of the mini jam jars instead.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, philjw said:

You could use one of the mini jam jars instead.

 

But where would I put the fish paste? 

 

 

[NB Lola]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

But where would I put the fish paste? 

 

 

Needs little imagination!

[philjw]

You weren't thinking of using a full jar for Bizz's wheeze surely? That would never work. Maybe puffer fish might

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, philjw said:

You weren't thinking of using a full jar for Bizz's wheeze surely? That would never work. Maybe puffer fish might

 

Oooohhhh he meant take the fish paste OUT of the jar first. I geddit now!!!!

 

 

 

 

Oh hang on. So what stops the rain going down the pipe? I thought it was the fish paste...

[dor]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

The next step is to found out how the water got into the tank.

 

Three obvious possibilities:

 

1. The tank filler cap. If the tank has a flush fitting cap level with the deck, as opposed to a crew off cap on an upstand, then the nitrile rubber seal has failed. Replace with a new one every couple of year to prevent a recurrence.

 

2. Condensation. If the tank is left partly full during cold weather, condensation will form on the exposed surfaces and drop to the bottom of the tank. Unless periodically removed (pump or siphon out from the bottom of the tank periodically) it will eventually rise to the level of the engine supply pipe and stop the engine. If possible, keep the tank full to the brim during the winter months.

 

3. The water came from the supplier of you last fuel purchase - only likely if it was from an above ground tank and the quantity of water in the tank was significant. Tell the suplly to dip the tank with water finding paste and if water is present to remove it from his tank. Good suppliers will do this periodically.

The problem with most of the seals sold by chandlers etc is that they go soft with the diesel, then quite often kink when screwing the filler cap back.  Last time I went to buy a couple in my local chandler they suggested a fuel-resistant O-ring.  This has worked perfectly, and much easier to screw the cap in than when the flat seal has spread a bit and gets caught on the side.

[MtB]

 

I think most water gets into diesel tanks via the air vent. It needs to be on an upstand at least 6" high and few are.

 

In the world of building 6" is the height to which raindrops are expected to bounce, IIRC.

[mark99]

On a trad the vent may be low to gunnel but inside it can hoop up 6" before falling. So you can't actually tell how high the vent projects upwards unless you look inside the bote.

Edited November 30, 2018 by mark99

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, mark99 said:

On a trad the vent may be low to gunnel but inside it can hoop up 6" before falling. So you can't actually tell how high the vent projects upwards unless you look inside the bote.

 

Most of the tank vents I see on boats with engine rooms are through the roof of the boat, so yes you can!

 

Certainly the case with my boats. Some have the tank vent in a stern dolly and same problem exists.

 

 

[mark99]

Vent rises before falling - and exits boat low level at gunnel.

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by mark99

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, dor said:

Last time I went to buy a couple in my local chandler they suggested a fuel-resistant O-ring. 

As the kids might say... “Well duh!”

3 hours ago, mark99 said:

Vent rises before falling - and exits boat low level at gunnel.

Yes, but the point Mike was making is that the vent needs to be at least 6” above the surface from which it projects. It’s irrelevant what it does away from the rain. 

[mark99]

16 minutes ago, WotEver said:

As the kids might say... “Well duh!”

Yes, but the point Mike was making is that the vent needs to be at least 6” above the surface from which it projects. It’s irrelevant what it does away from the rain. 

If you look at the image provided you can see how that's not the full story. In the image, the  visible vent outlet is 1 inch above the surface (gunnel) but show me how a rain drop could go into the tank.

Edited November 30, 2018 by mark99

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, mark99 said:

If you look at the image provided you can see how that's not the full story. In the image, the  visible vent outlet is 1 inch above the surface (gunnel) but show me how a rain drop could go into the tank.

A good point well made

[rgriffiths]

So a quick update ..... there was a bit of urgency to getting the engine going as it was going in for blacking and lifting was scheduled for today. With an 18 mile cruse two days ago to get it there the last thing that was needed was for the engine to conk out.  Thanks to you guys for helping getting to the root of it and it arrived at the boatyard at 1am this morning for lifting at 8am. Phew!!

 

However the engine stopped three more times on route, and as luck woudl have it, one final time as I made the final turn into the yard where it glided to its lifting position. There have been no problem with for years and now this. I will keep you posted as to what I have found in the diesel, What I have already drained off has settled in a bowl it is quite alarming to see what gunk is in there. Pics to follow.

 

So is polishing that bad an idea? I had it done  once a long time ago on another boat and it was amazing how much redder the stuff was after an hour or two. And there was quite a bit of the bug floating around too as I recall.

[rgriffiths]

One week on I have been doing some cleaning of the tank. Pipe to the bottom and syphoning out. No carp but quite a bit of crap, getting less each time. I will keep doing it for a while as it can't do any harm. Got a £300 quote for polishing so bought some water bottles instead.

 

Engine running great now. Thanks all.

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by rgriffiths

[MtB]

On 01/12/2018 at 12:29, rgriffiths said:

So is polishing that bad an idea? I had it done  once a long time ago on another boat and it was amazing how much redder the stuff was after an hour or two. And there was quite a bit of the bug floating around too as I recall.

 

Polishing is not a bad idea per se. It would have removed the watery slop perfectly well just as you have, and you'd have clean hands in exchange for three hundred notes from your wallet. 

 

What it doesn't do, in my personal opinion, is lift and remove ALL of the heavier rust deposits and proper sludge in the bottom of the tank. 

 

Great photos, thanks. Typical of what I've found too in a tank serving up droplets of water in the diesel. 

[mark99]

Mmmmmnn  tizer.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Mmmmmnn  tizer.

 

Its NOT Tizer. 

 

Don't ask me how I know....

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

19 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Its NOT Tizer. 

 

Don't ask me how I know....

 

 

Ooh you tizer teaser!

[jenevers]

21 hours ago, rgriffiths said:

One week on I have been doing some cleaning of the tank. Pipe to the bottom and syphoning out. No carp but quite a bit of crap, getting less each time. I will keep doing it for a while as it can't do any harm. Got a £300 quote for polishing so bought some water bottles instead.

 

Engine running great now. Thanks all.

 

I’d get the caps on those bottles before bothering to take a photo, just in case they got knocked over? Ever seen the oil slick caused be a tablespoon of diesel??

[Cheshire cat]

Just for comparison I got something similar to the middle one out of mine BUT the bottle was only a one litre bottle. I would syphon off as muchdiesel out of those bottles as you can into a clean bottle, passing it through a filter, a piece of kitchen roll will do to remove any solids and put it back in the tank. The one on the left is particularly crappy and 60% water. Not sure where the water came from because I got less than half a litre out of a 20 year old boat. 

 

I'd put the good stuff back and check again every winter