Router

[eid]

This is the transformer for my EE router:

 

 

 

 

Can I cut this off and connect it directly to a 12v supply?

 

Thanks.

Edited November 26, 2018 by eid
Resize picture

[alan_fincher]

There would be no issue running directly from a genuine 12 volt DC supply.

However even without the engine running, a boat supply will be closer to 13 volts if the batteries are fully charged, and as much as 14.5 volts at east if they are actively being charged by the engine.

14.5 volts is a lot more than the 12 volts the router is specified to use.  You will probably get away with it, but as is always the case with these discussions, it is possible that putting 2.5 volts more into it than the design voltage could cause premature failure.

Regulators can be purchased that connect to your boat "12 volts", but ensure the equipment being powered is limited to a fairly accurate 12 volts.  That would be the safest approach.

(Someone will be along shortly to tell you it is completely risk free, because they have done it, and theirs hasn't blown up yet!)

[TheBiscuits]

Yes, but your boat's 12V (nominal) system isn't a 12V supply.  It's probably in the 10.5V to 14.8V range depending on loading and charging so might cook the router.

 

What you need is a regulated 12V supply - available cheaply from ebay etc. Hopefully someone will give you a recommendation of which one to get.

[Jess--]

short answer NO

 

Long answer....

although we think of boat electrics as 12v they will normally be anything from 13 to 15v depending on charging etc

one solution is to use a regulated 12v supply (more usually used on tvs) like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322554860673

 

[Tony Brooks]

As all above plus voltage surges caused when inductive loads like motors turn on and more importantly off

[Boater Sam]

You can buy a 12v stabiliser made for running flat screen TVs at 12v, I use one on a Bush TV. Loads on ebay. Make sure you get the polarity correct.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Boater Sam
smellings & Added

[Ian F B]

3 hours ago, eid said:

This is the transformer for my EE router:

 

 

 

 

Can I cut this off and connect it directly to a 12v supply?

 

Thanks.

Correct polarity is marked on the plug body,inner pin of connector is + outer ring is -,hope this helps.A stabilised power source is essential,sometimes the cable will have a trace colour on it usually marking the +.???

[matty40s]

Why not get a cordless one. 

 

[jonathanA]

I’d just give it a go despite the harbingers of doom it’s unlikely that it’s so poorly designed that 13-14v is going to make it release its magic smoke.... 

 

add in a bit of volt drop down the length of the boat and you should be all right.... if not ring ee and say it’s not working and doubtless they will shove another in the post (assuming you’re a customer) 

 

polarity is is much more likely to be an issue so make sure you get that right (don’t ask me how I know )

[old-p]

search online for a boost buck converter,. you can pick them up really cheap online and is exactly what you need, just make sure it can handle at least 2.5 amps at 12v.

 

 

[eid]

Thank you all, that was very helpful.

 

18 hours ago, Jess-- said:

 like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322554860673

 

That looks like it may be exactly what I need. Polarity is correct. I'll measure the plug later.

 

10 hours ago, old-p said:

search online for a boost buck converter,. you can pick them up really cheap online and is exactly what you need, just make sure it can handle at least 2.5 amps at 12v.

 

 

This looks interesting. I notice some have a constant current. I'd think this isn't something I want, right?

 

This one looks like it may work:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Droking-Adjustable-Converter-Regulator-Regulating/dp/B07CV73XQD/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1543309914&sr=8-21&keywords=boost+buck+converter

[WotEver]

32 minutes ago, eid said:

This one looks like it may work:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Droking-Adjustable-Converter-Regulator-Regulating/dp/B07CV73XQD/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1543309914&sr=8-21&keywords=boost+buck+converter

Yup, that would be fine. 

[eid]

18 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yup, that would be fine. 

Thanks!

[Tony Brooks]

13 hours ago, jonathanA said:

I’d just give it a go despite the harbingers of doom it’s unlikely that it’s so poorly designed that 13-14v is going to make it release its magic smoke.... 

 

One hopes that what you say will be correct but we should not just be talking about charging voltages. I have had shocks from a relay coil and a motor when it was turned off. In both cases it takes far more than 14V to get through the skin. Transitory inductive voltage surges can be far higher than 14V. They may not do immediate damage but they do stress semiconductors that can eventually fail. Although the battery will tend to damp such surges none of us know how the OP's boat is wired so if the water pump and the 12V outlet to be used are on the same circuit spikes could be an issue.

 

[rupertbear]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Transitory inductive voltage surges can be far higher than 14V.

This topic is slowly moving towards a question I've been meaning to pose for some time.

 

I'm familiar with the cheap (but magical, to someone as old as me) boost-buck converters from Ebay and have used them in the past. But how good are they at filtering (and themselves, coping with) transients? As Tony says items such as water pumps must create some major spikes. And the follow up, if they aren't good at this, what is required in addition to clean up the supply sufficiently for safe use with electronic equipment?

 

[Boater Sam]

51 minutes ago, rupertbear said:

This topic is slowly moving towards a question I've been meaning to pose for some time.

 

I'm familiar with the cheap (but magical, to someone as old as me) boost-buck converters from Ebay and have used them in the past. But how good are they at filtering (and themselves, coping with) transients? As Tony says items such as water pumps must create some major spikes. And the follow up, if they aren't good at this, what is required in addition to clean up the supply sufficiently for safe use with electronic equipment?

 

The proper stabilized supplies that you can buy for televisions contain the buck/ boost switch mode power supply and all the filtering bits as well.

Why make it complicated? If you are not an electronics whizz, just buy the box and its done. 

 

See.  

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CELLO-12V-REGULATED-LEAD-FOR-CELLO-12V-TVs-DVD-COMBIS-16-24/113037665724?epid=24017675515&hash=item1a5191e5bc:g:HUYAAOSwwI5bWJYi:rk:47:pf:0

Edited November 27, 2018 by Boater Sam
added more

[WotEver]

41 minutes ago, rupertbear said:

I'm familiar with the cheap (but magical, to someone as old as me) boost-buck converters from Ebay and have used them in the past. But how good are they at filtering (and themselves, coping with) transients?

They should be very good as it’s not difficult to design-in at the test bench stage. 

 

All you wanted to know about transients and their suppression:

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/transient-suppression.html

[jonathanA]

Why would the op spend £16 on  a stabiliser  which most likely is not needed when he can buy 3 ee routers off eBay for that sort of money....

 

he really just needs a 20p 2.1mm dc power jack and a bit of flex (IMHO) 

 

yes there is small risk of spikes or high charging voltages of 14V+ which might damage the cheap consumer electronics in the router but when you can buy em on eBay for 5-8 quid....

 

id question whether a 15.99 ebay voltage stabiliser is any better able to deal with spikes and likely to be engineered to a higher spec, add in some losses and you might as well run your inverter. The cello one would appear to be about 70% efficient so st least you should be able to warm your hands on it too... 

 

 

[Jess--]

11 hours ago, jonathanA said:

Why would the op spend £16 on  a stabiliser  which most likely is not needed when he can buy 3 ee routers off eBay for that sort of money....

 

he really just needs a 20p 2.1mm dc power jack and a bit of flex (IMHO) 

 

yes there is small risk of spikes or high charging voltages of 14V+ which might damage the cheap consumer electronics in the router but when you can buy em on eBay for 5-8 quid....

 

id question whether a 15.99 ebay voltage stabiliser is any better able to deal with spikes and likely to be engineered to a higher spec, add in some losses and you might as well run your inverter. The cello one would appear to be about 70% efficient so st least you should be able to warm your hands on it too... 

 

 

because you never know how close to the limits the manufacturer of your equipment is already running.

A good example is a couple of radio charging bases that I had.

this was supplied by the manufacturer with a 12v power supply and used to get a little bit warm in use (nothing that you'd worry about)
when used on boat electrics that in my case very rarely drop below 13.5v that "little bit warm" was changed to melting a hole in the plastic case on one charger and converting parts of the circuit to charcoal on the other. 

[eid]

11 hours ago, jonathanA said:

add in some losses and you might as well run your inverter. The cello one would appear to be about 70% efficient so st least you should be able to warm your hands on it too... 

 

 

 

How efficient would you say the original 240/12v transformer is?

[jonathanA]

2 hours ago, Jess-- said:

because you never know how close to the limits the manufacturer of your equipment is already running.

A good example is a couple of radio charging bases that I had.

this was supplied by the manufacturer with a 12v power supply and used to get a little bit warm in use (nothing that you'd worry about)
when used on boat electrics that in my case very rarely drop below 13.5v that "little bit warm" was changed to melting a hole in the plastic case on one charger and converting parts of the circuit to charcoal on the other. 

Yep you tried it didn’t work presume you didn’t do it again and were happy to take a bit of a risk in the first place....

 

2 hours ago, eid said:

 

How efficient would you say the original 240/12v transformer is?

You could expect >90% for a reasonable one. A good clue is how hot it gets in use.

[TheBiscuits]

Of course you could always get the official car adapter for your 4GEE router, as EE sell a car version. Or any of the aftermarket clones on ebay. 

 

These will do exactly the same job as the converters mentioned above, as that is what they are. 

[eid]

3 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Of course you could always get the official car adapter for your 4GEE router, as EE sell a car version. Or any of the aftermarket clones on ebay. 

 

These will do exactly the same job as the converters mentioned above, as that is what they are. 

I couldn't find an official one.

 

I have now ordered the Cello TV adapter.

 

Thanks all.

[rupertbear]

On 27/11/2018 at 16:45, Boater Sam said:

The proper stabilized supplies that you can buy for televisions contain the buck/ boost switch mode power supply and all the filtering bits as well.

Why make it complicated? If you are not an electronics whizz, just buy the box and its done. 

 

I intend to run a variety of electronic equipment from 5V and 12V lines rather than use a device such as this for each individual item.

On 27/11/2018 at 16:47, WotEver said:

All you wanted to know about transients and their suppression:

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/transient-suppression.html

Many thanks for this link, very helpful, as is the whole site.

[Steve42]

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but FIT A FUSE! if the new supply can supply more than the rated current, or connecting to the boat 12V, you must protect it.

 

I once had a 12V car to phone charger that kept popping it's fuse, so despite knowing better, fitted a slightly bigger one. It worked fine for a few minutes, long enough for me to think 

'they don't call me clever Steve nothing' it then caught fire and I had to yank it out the socket and chuck it out the window, still in the company car park with on lookers!

 

When asked what had happened,  I told them it was cheap rubbish and they shouldn't be allowed to sell such dangerous things......