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Brexit 2019

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34 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Whilst in agreement that life expectancy has increased (or did until 2010) we are still asking today's youth to pay for the pensions of those now retired whilst simultaneously telling them that they wont be getting the same, why would they want to do that? As I said it is essentially breaking the compact between the young and old that those who are of working age pay the pensions of those who have retired (which is what those of us of retirement age on here were doing prior to retirement). Once you've broken that compact it is entirely reasonable for the youth to then say,"Why should I pay for your comfortable pension?" Can you think of a reason? I can't other, than it would make things awkward/tight for me, but then that isn't their problem in this 'every man for themselves' culture that is taking hold.

Because, supposedly, we live in a civilised society where those who can afford to support those who can't. Young people are being given plenty of notice of what they will receive ... and plenty of time to organise their affairs in the meantime. Can you point me towards where it says that pensions will be stopped for the current youngsters?  I thought the state pension was being fixed so we all got the same.

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2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

It isn't clear at all. What is clear is that three years ago there was a marginal preference, among those who expressed a preference, for an undefined future relationship with the EU27. What is becoming clear now is that nothing realistically achievable was ever going to appear, and the only way to break the impasse is to have a confirmatory vote/people's vote/third referendum. 

 

Plesbiscites are called when parliament cannot sort an issue out. It seems to me that the Tories have comprehensively ballsed things up fro the entire country by trying (just as unsuccessfully) to keep their own sorry excuse for a political party together.  History will judge them harshly.

 

He scared the Tories into it. There was no referendum in the Labour manifesto in 2015. 

How many MPs voted for the referendum, i will give you a clue, it was a stonking 544, so not just the Tories. 

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2 hours ago, Jerra said:

In my case it is because I don't consider zero hours contracts and the other methods used to make the employment figures look good believable.   Anyone boasting of current high employment is clutching at straws and/or blinding themselves to the real situation with regard to employment.

Better than zero hours surely? We are in a period of high employment, that is fact, similar to the fact that the UK majority voters voted to rid ourselves of the eu cancer. A straightforward fact.

Edited by mrsmelly

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9 minutes ago, Phil. said:

How many MPs voted for the referendum, i will give you a clue, it was a stonking 544, so not just the Tories. 

 

I repeat, there was no referendum on the Labour manifesto in 2015. None of what you say here affects the truth of that. It was, and is, a Tory problem and they are taking everyone else down with them (with a few notable exceptions).

 

 

A straightforward fact.

Edited by Machpoint005

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1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I repeat, there was no referendum on the Labour manifesto in 2015. None of what you say here affects the truth of that. It was, and is, a Tory problem and they are taking everyone else down with them (with a few notable exceptions).

 

 

No, it was the Government of the day, finally giving the public a choice of the direction in which we want our country to go. We chose. Some didn't like the choice we made, and are bellyaching about it. Like all other political choices that are made, the losing side should be ignored.

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3 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Especially for the 5000 steel workers in Scunthorpe, and those whose livings depend on the steelworks? Tell me the uncertainty over Brexit has nothing to do with British Steel going bump? 

 

Well they said on the BEEB news at lunchtime that British Steel had to borrow £100m from the govt specifically as a result of the Brexit referendum result, and the falling value of the pound along with rising energy costs meant that £100m was now pissed up the wall (they may not have used that exact phrase). And the govt is declining to shovel any more cash into the firebox. 

 

So 5,000 jobs at BS go to the wall, and 20,000 more estimated in the companies that rely on supplying peripheral products and services to BS. 

 

And we haven't even left the EU yet. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Phil. said:

No, it was the Government of the day, finally giving the public a choice of the direction in which we want our country to go. We chose. Some didn't like the choice we made, and are bellyaching about it. Like all other political choices that are made, the losing side should be ignored.

Blimey phil, you are the master of the understatement :D

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"Let me remind them: the 2016 Leave campaign was clear that we would leave with a deal.

So, to advocate for no deal is to hijack the result of the referendum and, in doing so, knowingly to inflict damage on our economy and our living standards.

Because all the preparation in the world will not avoid the consequences of no deal."

 

Philip Hammond.

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3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Blimey phil, you are the master of the understatement :D

I actually think the tide is turning against our remainer friends, and there is no point kicking them when they are down. It's sadly rather comical to watch. I see the latest attempt at denying brexiteers their voice in Swindon, by cancelling a Brexit rally venue at the last minute has worked wonders. Apparently even more voters, so outraged at the obvious attempts to undermine democracy, are more determined to vote for Nigel. 

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

"Let me remind them: the 2016 Leave campaign was clear that we would leave with a deal.

So, to advocate for no deal is to hijack the result of the referendum and, in doing so, knowingly to inflict damage on our economy and our living standards.

Because all the preparation in the world will not avoid the consequences of no deal."

 

Philip Hammond.

Just another remainer looking to thwart our decision. Had he as chancellor actually spent some money in preparation, we wouldn't be in quite the mess we are. Hopefully he won't be in government for long, I rather hope Boris puts him out to grass.

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Well they said on the BEEB news at lunchtime that British Steel had to borrow £100m from the govt specifically as a result of the Brexit referendum result, and the falling value of the pound along with rising energy costs meant that £100m was now pissed up the wall (they may not have used that exact phrase). And the govt is declining to shovel any more cash into the firebox. 

 

So 5,000 jobs at BS go to the wall, and 20,000 more estimated in the companies that rely on supplying peripheral products and services to BS. 

 

And we haven't even left the EU yet. 

 

 

 

The venture capitalists involved have been extracting huge "management fees", Graybull Capital has also "invested" in Rileys Sports Bars, Comet (electricals) and Monarch Airlines. Common factor: they all went bump.

 

5 minutes ago, Phil. said:

Just another remainer looking to thwart our decision.

 

My point is that the decision was to leave with a deal. I think the blame for that failure must be shared by the reactionary wingnuts in the ERG. You will have notived that Trump's tame spokesman (Farridge) has also changed his tune since 2016.

 

It appears that the way to get people to vote for you is to lie, and the more barefaced the lie, the more it is admired.

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24 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

"Let me remind them: the 2016 Leave campaign was clear that we would leave with a deal.

So, to advocate for no deal is to hijack the result of the referendum and, in doing so, knowingly to inflict damage on our economy and our living standards.

Because all the preparation in the world will not avoid the consequences of no deal."

 

Philip Hammond.

 

What was that 'deal'?

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs

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8 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

The venture capitalists involved have been extracting huge "management fees", Graybull Capital has also "invested" in Rileys Sports Bars, Comet (electricals) and Monarch Airlines. Common factor: they all went bump.

 

 

My point is that the decision was to leave with a deal. I think the blame for that failure must be shared by the reactionary wingnuts in the ERG. You will have notived that Trump's tame spokesman (Farridge) has also changed his tune since 2016.

 

It appears that the way to get people to vote for you is to lie, and the more barefaced the lie, the more it is admired.

And I suspect most brexiteers would still like to leave with a deal, but that is also up to the eu. At the moment what they are offering is unacceptable, so no deal it is. If their position changes then maybe we can reach an agreement.

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9 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

My point is that the decision was to leave with a deal.

 

That was not my impression. I thought I was choosing between a hard brexit, or staying in. I don't remember the slightest mention of a deal until the day AFTER the result was announced.

 

I think a LOT of people thought the same as me and made their voting choice accordingly, and the result was a close run thing. I suspect if we had a second referendum, a helluvalot of people who voted to remain would switch to leaving with a deal to soften the blow, provided the deal was properly defined and not the wishy washy list of good intentions Mrs May is calling a deal. 

 

 

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Bit of a shame, but I guess the number of deserters is so small it will make no difference.

 

 

 

 

European elections 2019: Expats in France fear postal votes will not count

British expats in France might not get a vote in Thursday's European elections because their postal voting forms have arrived late, or not at all.

 

Expat voters who want to participate in European elections can register in advance to have a postal vote in the British constituency where they or their parents were last registered to vote.

But they must have their completed ballot paper returned to the local electoral returning officer by the time polls close on election day.

It is believed, based on the number of eligible voters, that thousands of Britons living in France could be affected.

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13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

What was that deal?

There was nowt on my ballot paper hat even mentioned a deal. It was stay or leave but the straw clutching losing minority have still failed to accept the FACT. Still tying to get a losers vote etc etc etc.

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Bit of a shame, but I guess the number of deserters is so small it will make no difference.

 

 

 

 

European elections 2019: Expats in France fear postal votes will not count

British expats in France might not get a vote in Thursday's European elections because their postal voting forms have arrived late, or not at all.

 

Expat voters who want to participate in European elections can register in advance to have a postal vote in the British constituency where they or their parents were last registered to vote.

But they must have their completed ballot paper returned to the local electoral returning officer by the time polls close on election day.

It is believed, based on the number of eligible voters, that thousands of Britons living in France could be affected.

Not a shame at all, if you quit why the hell should you get a vote from the land of Johny Foreigner. Good riddance to em. Its a bit pointless anyway, we may as well just count that handful of people as remainers if they hadnt quit lol. Irony eh.

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1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

There was nowt on my ballot paper hat even mentioned a deal. It was stay or leave but the straw clutching losing minority have still failed to accept the FACT. Still tying to get a losers vote etc etc etc.

 

I think if a second referendum was held with "Leave with a properly defined and negotiated deal" Vs. "Remain" as the options, we would get a landslide 'Leave" result.

 

So I see no harm in having a second Referendum. Nothing will change.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think if a second referendum was held with "Leave with a properly defined and negotiated deal" Vs. "Remain" as the options, we would get a landslide 'Leave" result.

You may well be right Mike? As a strong leaver though I just despair at the way its been handled, I dont think I am alone there from either side of the coin.

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2 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

Is the pound only falling against the Euro?

How on earth do you only buy things from outside the EU? Supermarket shopping must be tricky, checking the source country for all the ingredients of your food.

Still, it’s your bubble, enjoy living in it.

It takes seconds and Underwoods the butchers meat is from here or Argentina, the supermarkets handily put country of origin  on things perfik

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3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

It takes seconds and Underwoods the butchers meat is from here or Argentina, the supermarkets handily put country of origin  on things perfik

Very good beef it is too, so is the stuff we get over here from the good old US of A.

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37 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

The venture capitalists involved have been extracting huge "management fees", Graybull Capital has also "invested" in Rileys Sports Bars, Comet (electricals) and Monarch Airlines. Common factor: they all went bump.

 

 

 

My greenie is for this bit ^^^^^^^ kiss of death for so many viable businesses

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15 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think if a second referendum was held with "Leave with a properly defined and negotiated deal" Vs. "Remain" as the options, we would get a landslide 'Leave" result.

 

So I see no harm in having a second Referendum. Nothing will change.

 

 

The harm is - you will encourage more of the same type of politics we're witnessing now. You will devalue the weight of parliamentary integrity. It is being devalued now, but is exposing the whole charade. This is not being done in private.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs

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4 hours ago, mark99 said:

It's not all about Brexit. Unless you are a simpleton.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-steel/british-steel-risks-collapse-with-25000-jobs-at-stake-idUKKCN1SR0M8

 

 

Amazing how the remoaners are silent over UK being at highest emploment rate since 70's.

It is even more amazing that there is no mention of any benefits of leaving the EU any more by those who want to leave. 

 

Those still supporting leave have been brainwashed by the event, which has now been shown to have no benefits whatsoever

4 hours ago, Phil. said:

The fault has been trying to pander to the remainers and,or trying to frustrate leaving. As to earning bucket loads of euros, why not, everyone else in the eu is doing it, and of course anti eu parties should stand. I'm sure the eu would love it, if only rabid supporters were allowed. It would suit their purposes well.

Who is doing the frustrating? Not the government- it has a deal on the table which is ready to go.

 

Its your sovereign parliament that is doing the frustrating - the very thing you clamour for is the very thing that is frustrating your wet dream.

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2 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

It is even more amazing that there is no mention of any benefits of leaving the EU any more by those who want to leave. 

You can only take a horse to water so many times, if it doesn't learn, then you just leave it to die.

 

Natural selection !!

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You can only take a horse to water so many times, if it doesn't learn, then you just leave it to die.

 

Natural selection !!

Yes, its become pointless answering any of his posts, he STILL doesnt " Get it "

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