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Brexit 2019

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27 minutes ago, KevMc said:

So my question is, why do we have to revert to WTO terms if we leave with no deal, and what is it about the deal that is offered that means we don't have to go to WTO terms around the world? 

 

And it is a very good question indeed.

 

If there is a deal it means there is a transition period under the Withdrawal Agreement -- if not, no transition period.  

 

My understanding is that if we have a customs union, or something like that, with the EU27, then third-party countries can choose to trade with us as if we were still a member (I think). If there is no deal, then we can't -- the option does not exist.

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5 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

And it is a very good question indeed.

 

If there is a deal it means there is a transition period under the Withdrawal Agreement -- if not, no transition period.  

 

My understanding is that if we have a customs union, or something like that, with the EU27, then third-party countries can choose to trade with us as if we were still a member (I think). If there is no deal, then we can't -- the option does not exist.

So, when the transition period expires we are back to square one with regard to WTO ?    Unless we permanently join a customs union - which some think is the same as being in the EU.

 

If that is the case it seems to me like an awful lot of hassle for a short term deferral of the inevitable.

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2 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Don't let the facts get in the way of some good old Brexit fake news.

Atkins is pro Mays deal the actor wasnt allowed a vote in Brexit because he lives in the IOM but he is for a proper Brexit, we will see tonight who is for what when the discussion begins

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1 minute ago, KevMc said:

So, when the transition period expires we are back to square one with regard to WTO ?    Unless we permanently join a customs union - which some think is the same as being in the EU.

 

If that is the case it seems to me like an awful lot of hassle for a short term deferral of the inevitable.

Does the transition period not allow deals to be negotiated with at least some countries?

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1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

There are no personal insults in any of my posts. It was Machpoint who suggested that I had a chip on my shoulder. Try to be original, at least.

You don't even realise you are making insulting comments!!
And I hadn't read Mach's posting.

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5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Does the transition period not allow deals to be negotiated with at least some countries?

Shouldn't we have been doing that for the last 2 years or more since we invoked Article 50?

I'm not sure of the detail but I thought the transition period was only a couple of years - "everyone" says it takes years to agree trade deals, so will a transition period be long enough?

 

Do we even have any trade negotiators?

We can't have needed any for the last 40 or so years while the EU has been in charge of that aspect of our lives.

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Just now, KevMc said:

Shouldn't we have been doing that for the last 2 years or more since we invoked Article 50?

I'm not sure of the detail but I thought the transition period was only a couple of years - "everyone" says it takes years to agree trade deals, so will a transition period be long enough?

 

Do we even have any trade negotiators?

We can't have needed any for the last 40 or so years while the EU has been in charge of that aspect of our lives.

I seem to remember that there is something in article 50 which prohibits such negotiation at least with the EU while we are still members (somebody will probably correct me).

 

As an example according to my Canadian friend it took Canada about 7 years to do a deal with the EU.

 

With regard to negotiators IIRC in the run up to the referendum New Zealand was offering a negotiating team as we didn't have trained negotiators (again somebody will probably correct me).

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33 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I seem to remember that there is something in article 50 which prohibits such negotiation at least with the EU while we are still members (somebody will probably correct me).

 

As an example according to my Canadian friend it took Canada about 7 years to do a deal with the EU.

 

With regard to negotiators IIRC in the run up to the referendum New Zealand was offering a negotiating team as we didn't have trained negotiators (again somebody will probably correct me).

If I was a cynical type I might think that the rules were set up to make life difficult for anyone wanting to leave :cheers:

 

I think I also recall that offer from the Kiwis

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8 minutes ago, KevMc said:

If I was a cynical type I might think that the rules were set up to make life difficult for anyone wanting to leave :cheers:

 

I think I also recall that offer from the Kiwis

It depends on how you look at it either to make it difficult to leave or give time to reconsider your errors.

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5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

It depends on how you look at it either to make it difficult to leave or give time to reconsider your errors.

I think nearly three years is longing enough for you to understand the error of your vote.

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2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think nearly three years is longing enough for you to understand the error of your vote.

ROFLMAO!   You clearly haven't managed to understand the error of your vote.

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Staggering :-

 

END OF TORY PARTY: May faces DEVASTATING EU election WIPE OUT -

 

THERESA May’s Tories face being crushed in the European Elections as Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party looks set to storm to victory in next month’s vote, according to Express.co.uk’s latest poll.

 

More than 20,000 people (89 percent) said they would back the former Ukip leader’s grassroots rebellion party if Britain heads to the polls in May. This is compared to just 211 Express.co.uk readers (zero percent) who said they would vote for the Conservative Party in the forthcoming May elections. The poll results come as it emerged disillusioned voters have sided with Nigel Farage, and the Brexit Party is currently odds on favourites to win the majority of the seats in the UK.

 

Taking second place was Remainer party Change UK, who are fighting to stop Brexit, with 4 percent of the vote (709 people).

Ukip got four percent of the vote with 714 people saying they would back Gerard Batten’s party in the European election polls.

Meanwhile, two percent of people said they would support Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour and Lib Dems got one percent of the vote

 

FULL RESULTS HERE 

Brexit Party - 89% 

Change UK - 4%

Conservative - 0%

Green Party - 0% 

Labour - 2%

Lib Dems - 1%

Ukip - 4% 

Other - 0%

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I see. |On that basis would it be acceptable to write about about the recent, and not so recent troubles in Zimbabwe, 'Stupid Black Men'?  

No reply on this. Can I assume that 'Stupid Black Men' would be deemed racist by the so called progressives amongst us? And perhaps the lack of a reply is down to their inability to explain why it's racist, but 'Stupid White Men' isn't, without moving well away from logic, the notion of equality etc.?

Edited by The Welsh Cruiser

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2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

No apology necessary unless you think it appropriate.

 

I think I must have been nearer than you to the front of the queue when irony rations were handed out.

Which when faced with an apology you fail to accept it so I think I have your measure.  I withdraw it.

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3 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Aren't there?

 

This site seems pretty unequivocal:

 

linky

 

as does this one:

 

linky

 

And they are the first (and only) two I looked at. 

 
 
 

Good to know you can indeed use Google.

 

Niether of your links represent a manifesto for the elections. They both show the parties aspirations for the UK staying in Europe as one might expect and I am familiiar with them. The ChangeUK TIG party show similar although less detail. Both Change UK and Brexit Parties are new so still shaping their output.  However, Brexit party will be a single/key issue party and so they do not need to be too elaborate just motivate those that are frustrated that Brexit has not hapened yet.

 

We will see these grow into a proper manifesto as the campaign starts proper. Likewise with the Pro-Brexit Parties and whatever Labour and the Conservatives decide they represent.

 

Folk need to pick their favourite and vote.  If people let Farage set the agenda (no matter what you think is absent)  he will get a huge victory in the vote and there will be no hope of a new referendum or any reversal of Brexit. If the country has changed its mind the Remain vote needs to take heed and vote for what they want. Anybody that thinks this is a simple vote of EU MEPs just like any previous election is being naive in the extreme.

Edited by churchward
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4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

In fairness he is factualy quite correct though isnt he. Langoustine as with much other sea food is rather " flavour free " I have eaten loads but usualy with some nice sauce for flavour much like pasta, its lousy without sauce. Most expensive stuff as with cars is just snobbery. A good example being fish eggs and a prime example being champagne, even a " Good " champagne is basicaly fizzy alco pop and has no where near the robust body and flavour of many red wines a quarter of its price. In fact a very good cider is a way better drink than champagne but of course doesnt have the snob value, much like certain car badges.

My lovely daughter-in-law thinks the sun shines out of my arse (and who can blame her...) she's always buying me pressies. I once mentioned I'd never tasted caviar, next thing I knew she'd bought me a small Fortnum & Masons hamper complete with a small container of it. Yuk! is the only way I can describe caviar! 

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3 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

My lovely daughter-in-law thinks the sun shines out of my arse (and who can blame her...) she's always buying me pressies. I once mentioned I'd never tasted caviar, next thing I knew she'd bought me a small Fortnum & Masons hamper complete with a small container of it. Yuk! is the only way I can describe caviar! 

Completely agree. Even if I had millions of pounds I wouldnt buy some of the ridiculous so called works of art that plenty of mugs fall for either!! of course up themselves mugs would just believe they had an " educated pallet " re the fish eggs and " Good, informed taste " re the stupid art.

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10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Completely agree. Even if I had millions of pounds I wouldnt buy some of the ridiculous so called works of art that plenty of mugs fall for either!! of course up themselves mugs would just believe they had an " educated pallet " re the fish eggs and " Good, informed taste " re the stupid art.

Give me black pudding and a pork pie any day. 

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4 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Give me black pudding and a pork pie any day. 

Heathen ?

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1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

No reply on this. Can I assume that 'Stupid Black Men' would be deemed racist by the so called progressives amongst us? And perhaps the lack of a reply is down to their inability to explain why it's racist, but 'Stupid White Men' isn't, without moving well away from logic, the notion of equality etc.?

Keep digging mate. You will get to the point under the bridge that you seek soon enough. 

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33 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Completely agree. Even if I had millions of pounds I wouldnt buy some of the ridiculous so called works of art that plenty of mugs fall for either!! of course up themselves mugs would just believe they had an " educated pallet " re the fish eggs and " Good, informed taste " re the stupid art.

Indeed. It should be noted that the fish eggs and works of art tend to be too expensive for the majority of people. This is key actually, those who can afford them, and seek to broadcast their self perceived sense of superiority, then spend a disproportionate amount of time telling others about them, how good they are. If other things were equally good but affordable to the masses this would be no good at all to these folk. 

Just now, Tigerr said:

Keep digging mate. You will get to the point under the bridge that you seek soon enough. 

Feel free to give me your own take on it?

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1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Can I assume that 'Stupid Black Men' would be deemed racist by the so called progressives amongst us?

No, you cannot, because you would be wrong.

 

I put it to you that you don't actually understand what racism is.  

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55 minutes ago, churchward said:

Snip

 

Folk need to pick their favourite and vote.  If people let Farage set the agenda (no matter what you think is absent)  he will get a huge victory in the vote and there will be no hope of a new referendum or any reversal of Brexit. If the country has changed its mind the Remain vote needs to take heed and vote for what they want. Anybody that thinks this is a simple vote of EU MEPs just like any precious election is being naive in the extreme.

 

Agreed. I think CW you are/were a remainer? but has grasped the issue here?

 

There is, as you say, no point arguing about a lack of your opponents manifesto if they just trounce you at the election.

 

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

No, you cannot, because you would be wrong.

 

I put it to you that you don't actually understand what racism is.  

The trouble is PC has gone ott and those sort of phrases instill a sort of twitch.

Edited by mark99

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Staggering :-

 

END OF TORY PARTY: May faces DEVASTATING EU election WIPE OUT -

 

THERESA May’s Tories face being crushed in the European Elections as Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party looks set to storm to victory in next month’s vote, according to Express.co.uk’s latest poll.

 

More than 20,000 people (89 percent) said they would back the former Ukip leader’s grassroots rebellion party if Britain heads to the polls in May. This is compared to just 211 Express.co.uk readers (zero percent) who said they would vote for the Conservative Party in the forthcoming May elections. The poll results come as it emerged disillusioned voters have sided with Nigel Farage, and the Brexit Party is currently odds on favourites to win the majority of the seats in the UK.

 

Taking second place was Remainer party Change UK, who are fighting to stop Brexit, with 4 percent of the vote (709 people).

Ukip got four percent of the vote with 714 people saying they would back Gerard Batten’s party in the European election polls.

Meanwhile, two percent of people said they would support Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour and Lib Dems got one percent of the vote

 

FULL RESULTS HERE 

Brexit Party - 89% 

Change UK - 4%

Conservative - 0%

Green Party - 0% 

Labour - 2%

Lib Dems - 1%

Ukip - 4% 

Other - 0%

Well Alan it seems to say what I said from the beginning doesnt it? I hope it comes true and they really do take all the seats it would pretty much kick the arses of those remainer MPs that dont want to implement Brexit

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