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Brexit 2019

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1 hour ago, Proper Charlie said:

I'm sure that will easily offset the 5,000 jobs going at JLR (admittedly not all entirely due to Brexit).

Along with the thousands being cut by Ford across Europe?  Again, nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit. 

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

According to R4 this morning they are going to move production of electric vehicles to Slovakia.

Either they or you got that backwards. JLR are moving production of the diesel Discovery model to Slovakia (its biggest market) to free up UK plants to focus on electric. 

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4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Either they or you got that backwards. JLR are moving production of the diesel Discovery model to Slovakia (its biggest market) to free up UK plants to focus on electric. 

I stand corrected -- I was only half awake at the time of the broadcast.

54 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have a Hybrid and the brakes on it last forever, because it has regeneration on it. The first touch of the brake pedal increases this as well so mostly I actually never use the brakes at all! Modern direct injection petrols have a NOX problem and are now being fitted with filters to reduce the problem, Nothing on the road is clean really but electric cars are better than ICEs

 

That rather depends on whether you include 'whole life' environmental costs, and on how the electricity is generated. Thermal power stations are just shifting the pollution elsewhere, and are inefficient. Admittedly there are very few coal-fired stations in the UK these days -- gas is much better, but it's still a fossil fuel.

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

4,999 jobs going due to fall in demand in China and the fact that JLR concentrated on Diesel powered vehicles.

Remember when we were all 'told' to change to diesel, it was cleaner and cheaper.

 

It's now considered 'dirtier' than petrol and at out local petrol station costs 11p per litre more than petrol.

Luckily there is a massive rush to invest in plants for the electric cars of the future which will be allowed into the cities of Europe. I expect international car manufacturers will flock to invest in the UK, just as soon as the uncertainty over future viability is sorted out, or the government can find the huge 'incentives' required to compensate them - Nissan's 'comfort letter' but bigger. 

Do you think that is going to what happens in a tariff restricted, import barriered economy? 

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24 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

Luckily there is a massive rush to invest in plants for the electric cars of the future which will be allowed into the cities of Europe. I expect international car manufacturers will flock to invest in the UK, just as soon as the uncertainty over future viability is sorted out, or the government can find the huge 'incentives' required to compensate them - Nissan's 'comfort letter' but bigger. 

Do you think that is going to what happens in a tariff restricted, import barriered economy? 

Will the UK not be wanting to buy 13 million electric vehicles over the next few years ? - more than enough to justify several plants in the UK.

Buy British (its worked before)

 

Looking at the forecasts - it could be as high as 36 million by 2040.

Add in all the infrastructure build that is required, additional power generation and there is jobs for 1000's of people.

 

https://www.carbonbrief.org/rise-uk-electric-vehicles-national-grid-doubles-2040-forecast

 

image.png.7cee830ff9ad8901b4c6742255342ab2.png

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There are customers outside of Europe :

 

UK signs £127m trade deal with Japan to export British meat in first time for 23 years

JAPAN will soon sell British beef and lamb in its markets, bringing a £127 million boost for UK farmers in a breakthrough Brexit trade deal.

Today, Prime Minister Theresa May will meet with Japan’s leader Shinzo Abe in Downing Street to commence talks on post-Brexit trade deals. Trade Secretary Dr Liam Fox declared his support to ending the ban, encouraging a closer trading relationship with Tokyo in the oncoming years. He said: “It is great news that British beef and lamb will be available on supermarket shelves and restaurant menus for the first time in more than 20 years.

I thought this, well beef anyway, was more to do with the 'Mad Cow, CJD thing, i.e. a resumption of the trade that the UK used to have. I think we can look forward to some more highly optimistic headlines every time a container gets sent to some distant part of the world from the likes of Liam Fox et al. 

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On 03/01/2019 at 21:34, Bee said:

Farmers and Brexit. Unbelievable.  In Shropshire where I live many farmers had pro Brexit signs plastered all over hedges and gates in the 2016 campaign, Now there is wailing and gnashing of teeth and demands for laws to protect their featherbedded subsidised life from 'unfair competition' and laws to ensure 'food quality'. The awful Gove has sought to reassure them. Well that love affair didn't last long.

I think the days of feather bedded farmers is long gone, about forty years ago. in fact. 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Will the UK not be wanting to buy 13 million electric vehicles over the next few years ? - more than enough to justify several plants in the UK.

Buy British (its worked before)

 

Looking at the forecasts - it could be as high as 36 million by 2040.

Add in all the infrastructure build that is required, additional power generation and there is jobs for 1000's of people.  If your data is correct (I haven't checked) is that really a cause of celebration? 36 million cars are 6 million more than we currently have on the road. So everyone can sit in a low polluting vehicle still going nowhere due to congestion, whoopee!! That of course pre-supposes that all other forms of vehicle propulsion have been banned form the roads otherwise the congestion is going to be even greater if there are still any ICE's on the road.

 

https://www.carbonbrief.org/rise-uk-electric-vehicles-national-grid-doubles-2040-forecast

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 

Actually I think with autonomous electric cars they are hoping for a lower car owning figure, which would suit a lot of people, pick up phone, car turns up takes you to A and then B,C,D as needed. I for one would like to be car free

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Financial Times article - Britain should not fear crashing out of the EU on WTO terms

 

https://www.ft.com/content/9f21454c-1346-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e

 

"Clearly a free trade agreement with the EU is optimal, but leaving on World Trade Organization terms should not hold terrors for the UK ( January 7).

If the UK leaves the EU without an FTA, it does so as a member of the most robust community of trading nations. There is no challenge to the various concluded rounds of liberalisation that began in 1947, and the UK would, as all WTO members do, benefit from the considerable progress that has been made in trade liberalisation in the last 70 years or so. More to the point, the fact that progress on multilateral liberalisation has slowed means it is even more important for another G7 liberalising voice such as the UK’s to be heard.

 

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12 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

Financial Times article - Britain should not fear crashing out of the EU on WTO terms

 

https://www.ft.com/content/9f21454c-1346-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e

 

"Clearly a free trade agreement with the EU is optimal, but leaving on World Trade Organization terms should not hold terrors for the UK ( January 7).

If the UK leaves the EU without an FTA, it does so as a member of the most robust community of trading nations. There is no challenge to the various concluded rounds of liberalisation that began in 1947, and the UK would, as all WTO members do, benefit from the considerable progress that has been made in trade liberalisation in the last 70 years or so. More to the point, the fact that progress on multilateral liberalisation has slowed means it is even more important for another G7 liberalising voice such as the UK’s to be heard.

 

Yeah but, no but, yeah but..............we cannot possibly survive on our own. House prices will drop 90 percent and turnips will become unobtainable by march 31st innitt.

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6 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

According to R4 this morning they are going to move production of electric vehicles to Slovakia.  Last time I looked, Slovakia was in the EU. Make of that what you will,

 

And apart from the optimistic fairytale from the Express about the talks on beer exports, Japanese-owned British car factories (ie most of them) are still warning about the consequences of a cliff-edge Brexit.   They would take their money elsewhere, and who could blame them?

Imagine this:  

You have a company and you join an "association" to try to improve your company.  

After some time you discover that your membership fees are being used to support other members who don't actually pay for their membership.  

You then realise that the departments in your company that you thought would flourish are failing, because contracts are being awarded to other members. They can be awarded for non-commercial reasons. 

Finally you realise that you and your directors don't have any control of your company any more.  

The last straw is that you can't leave the association. 

EU MEMBERSHIP in a nutshell!!

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Actually I think with autonomous electric cars they are hoping for a lower car owning figure, which would suit a lot of people, pick up phone, car turns up takes you to A and then B,C,D as needed. I for one would like to be car free

Here`s a thought. If instead of spending £15+ billion to allow the "ants" to cross London easier if the money had been spent on an electric car industry and one given at a subsidized price to all those who would work from home instead of squashing into those trains and then sit in an office all day before squashing back in a train to get home. As I`ve commented before a Icelandic daughter in law having married into my family lives here in the UK but controls the wages and various other administrative activities for an Icelandic company with 6000+ employees.  In fact why couldn`t we all benefit from a subsidized electric car. 

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2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

If your data is correct (I haven't checked) is that really a cause of celebration? 36 million cars are 6 million more than we currently have on the road. So everyone can sit in a low polluting vehicle still going nowhere due to congestion, whoopee!! That of course pre-supposes that all other forms of vehicle propulsion have been banned form the roads otherwise the congestion is going to be even greater if there are still any ICE's on the road.

The article I linked to didn't say 36m cars it said :-

 

There could be as many as 36m electric vehicles (EVs) on UK roads by 2040, double the number expected just a year ago.

 

 

This is actually a reduction in the number of vehicles as there are currently (2016) 37.3 million.

 

Source :

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/608374/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2016.pdf

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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51 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Here`s a thought. If instead of spending £15+ billion to allow the "ants" to cross London easier if the money had been spent on an electric car industry and one given at a subsidized price to all those who would work from home instead of squashing into those trains and then sit in an office all day before squashing back in a train to get home. As I`ve commented before a Icelandic daughter in law having married into my family lives here in the UK but controls the wages and various other administrative activities for an Icelandic company with 6000+ employees.  In fact why couldn`t we all benefit from a subsidized electric car. 

Nice idea, but back in the real world, a Tory Government spending taxpayers money subsidising an industry so that we can have cheaper cars? Not going to happen, is it?

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49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The article I linked to didn't say 36m cars it said :-

 

There could be as many as 36m electric vehicles (EVs) on UK roads by 2040, double the number expected just a year ago.

 

 

This is actually a reduction in the number of vehicles as there are currently (2016) 37.3 million.

 

Source :

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/608374/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2016.pdf

 

Why are all your posts in huge type? then tiny type? 

It is like coming through the door of the pub and shouting at the top of your voice. It makes it painful to read what you have to say. 

Or entering waving a huge banner, walking round, sitting down and talking quietly. Whatever - it doesn't help make your point. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

Why are all your posts in huge type? then tiny type? 

It is like coming through the door of the pub and shouting at the top of your voice. It makes it painful to read what you have to say. 

Or entering waving a huge banner, walking round, sitting down and talking quietly. Whatever - it doesn't help make your point. 

 

 

I take it you don't read newspapers.

 

Cut and paste - you can tell its taken from a News website (Headlines followed by standard text) and not just 'my words'.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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19 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Nice idea, but back in the real world, a Tory Government spending taxpayers money subsidising an industry so that we can have cheaper cars? Not going to happen, is it?

I should imagine that currently that would fall foul of eu state aid rules would it not, not to mention the fact that taxpayers money should not be subsidising private companies, unless there is a national security element, as there would be in say supporting the steel industry for example.

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21 hours ago, peterboat said:

Well since MPs have started to interfere in Democracy over the last couple of days, the signatures on the brexit petition that will be discussed on the 14th have started to rise rapidly. Just goes to show the people are watching and waiting and are taking action now at 318,561

And the "Final Say" petition is now at.. 1,131,941 

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11 hours ago, Phil. said:

At the last GE, both Labour and the Tory manifesto stated that they would act on the result of the referendum to take the UK out of the eu, aka Brexit. The combined voting percentage between Labour and the Tories was 86%, therefore 86% of the public voted for the exit of the UK from the eu, or that they were not that bothered. This is a simple fact.

No it isn't. If I am understanding you correctly, what you are stating is the equivalent of having an EU referendum at the same time, where 86% would have voted to leave. That is blatantly not the case and, as I said above, you know it.

 

What you could say is that a large number of people who would like to remain in the EU could not bring themselves to vote for the Lib Dems, and against the party that they have voted for for years. There are so many more things that we vote for in a General Election than any single issue.

 

 

9 hours ago, Proper Charlie said:

I'm sure that will easily offset the 5,000 jobs going at JLR (admittedly not all entirely due to Brexit).

but definitely a significant reason for the losses. The CEO made that quite clear :(

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9 hours ago, peterboat said:

90% of their products are diesel, they have known for years that the emissions from diesels are killing people and are now taking steps to rectify this. Along with falling demand from China and that they are going the electric route so maybe the factories are closing to refit for this production? Or more likely project fear is using this to try and stop Brexit, why let the truth get in the way of a good smear.

No... the guy effectively said that Brexit was going to screw his business.

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25 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

No it isn't. If I am understanding you correctly, what you are stating is the equivalent of having an EU referendum at the same time, where 86% would have voted to leave. That is blatantly not the case and, as I said above, you know it.

 

What you could say is that a large number of people who would like to remain in the EU could not bring themselves to vote for the Lib Dems, and against the party that they have voted for for years. There are so many more things that we vote for in a General Election than any single issue.

 

 

but definitely a significant reason for the losses. The CEO made that quite clear :(

That's not what I said, I said 86% of the public, voted for a party at the last GE that were committed to taking the UK out of the eu. As to being a single issue, I don't accept that either. Brexit as we are finding out, impacts just about every aspect of life in the U.K. except perhaps for our military and foreign policy. In respect of all other areas of life, tax, environmental, fishing, farming, trade, law and order, financial, roads and public transport, health etc. So far from being a single issue, Brexit covers just about every issue, and therefore your argument that there are many more considerations in a GE, does not stack up.

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12 minutes ago, Phil. said:

That's not what I said, I said 86% of the public, voted for a party at the last GE that were committed to taking the UK out of the eu. As to being a single issue, I don't accept that either. Brexit as we are finding out, impacts just about every aspect of life in the U.K. except perhaps for our military and foreign policy. In respect of all other areas of life, tax, environmental, fishing, farming, trade, law and order, financial, roads and public transport, health etc. So far from being a single issue, Brexit covers just about every issue, and therefore your argument that there are many more considerations in a GE, does not stack up.

So the logic of what you are saying is that 86% of voters (voters of the two main parties) don't actually have a clue what sort of brexit they want since the two main parties do not have any way,shape or form of unified approach of what they are seeking. If, as you say, brexit was the single issue of the last election, why didn't the electorate give May the massive majority that she was expecting, enabling her to negotiate from a position of power? perhaps there might possibly have been other issues at play?:unsure:

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1 hour ago, carlt said:

And the "Final Say" petition is now at.. 1,131,941 

 

Thats the one that doesnt count, they should have done it proper, have a look on house of commons petitions, once 100k is hit they consider it to be discussed by parliament, the rules are stricter than change org I believe. 321,233 now on the leave without a deal

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