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Brexit 2019

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6 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Ponto season still running?

Ponto? Looks like it :)

 

felt more like a Monty Python sketch at this end.

 

We’re never going to agree and, despite what you thought you were voting for, you are going to get what our government and Parliament decide/want to give you.

 

The same applies to me but, as things stand, given that I lost, it’s looking more likely that we are going to get something closer to what I wanted, than what the vocal Brexiteers here wanted. Which is better than things were looking a few months ago.

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11 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Ponto? Looks like it :)

 

felt more like a Monty Python sketch at this end.

 

We’re never going to agree and, despite what you thought you were voting for, you are going to get what our government and Parliament decide/want to give you.

 

The same applies to me but, as things stand, given that I lost, it’s looking more likely that we are going to get something closer to what I wanted, than what the vocal Brexiteers here wanted. Which is better than things were looking a few months ago.

 

Given that you have graciously decided to concede some ground, I do not want to see a mess made of the withdrawal from the EU. I wouldn't mind a complete clean break, possibly the most traumatic but definitely not ambivalent.

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23 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

And who would have done a better job?

As I believe the "job" was to ensure we stay in the EU, I think the present incumbents are doing quite well.

 

George

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4 hours ago, Bee said:

So Chris Grayling has said that stopping Brexit will lead to a surge in far right extremism and populism. So that's who we are afraid of disappointing then and that's who are holding the country to ransom, do as we say or we will behave really badly. Nice.

No body is holding the country to ransom. We had a vote and the MAJORITY of that vote was to leave the crock of crap. An act of parliament was passed so we need to leave. It realy realy is that simple. Nothing is stopping us leaving apart from a minority of whinging wet nappied moaners in government who keep putting out pathetic scare stories. Holding the country to ransom would be the opposite of what the vote result was.

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4 hours ago, Phil. said:

A remainer would say that, as the deal is not really leaving at all. In fact it is worse than that, it is giving up the good stuff, keeping the bad stuff, and preventing the country from benefiting in any way. But hey, why should we be surprised a remainer would like to see their country damaged, by wanting to remain in the eu, they don't want their country to exist.

Agree with your first sentence: the "deal" is the worst of both worlds, and satisfies neither leavers nor remainers. It's certainly worse than remaining, as it leaves us subject to EU rules and regulations, present and future, without representation, until the EU decides otherwise. Your last sentence is inaccurate, insulting and is the sort of statement that keeps this country divided.

4 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

The EU is an administration that countries are giving the power of government to. What populations want will always have to take second place to the administration. Government circumventing the populations. It's a wet dream of the Neoliberals.

The wet dream of the Neoliberals is Brexit. It's not the governments circumventing the population, it's the vested interests the 1% who hold 50% of the wealth.

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2 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Agree with your first sentence: the "deal" is the worst of both worlds, and satisfies neither leavers nor remainers. It's certainly worse than remaining, as it leaves us subject to EU rules and regulations, present and future, without representation, until the EU decides otherwise. Your last sentence is inaccurate, insulting and is the sort of statement that keeps this country divided.

The wet dream of the Neoliberals is Brexit. It's not the governments circumventing the population, it's the vested interests the 1% who hold 50% of the wealth.

Ian,  Phils last sentence was absolutely to the point. The aims of the eu is total control or " ever closer " blah blah blah bulls droppings. The eu even has the audacity to use the term " member states " instead of countries. Many remainers even admit they want to be just part of an empire, that empire is a non country that is slowly but surely achieving its aims. I know remainers say a state is a country and all that rubbish but at school in my time and I assure you even today countries are referred to as such. America has states oh yes america with one overall leader much like an " Empire "

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3 hours ago, furnessvale said:

As I believe the "job" was to ensure we stay in the EU, I think the present incumbents are doing quite well.

 

George

Like I said previously, all brexiteers studiously avoid the main question which is, if you dislike the result that has been achieved, who would have done a better job of it. So far we've had a facetious answer (me), a non answer (anybody) and a complete evasion of the question (this reply). It's a simple question, but apparently too difficult to answer for any staunch brexiteers who just wish to complain about May's deal. I am certainly no fan of Theresa May but at least she had the guts to step up to the plate and do something, unlike all of the brexiteer MP's who bravely campaigned for the UK to leave but when they realised exactly what it would entail, did not want the job that May is currently trying to do. Complain about May if you wish to, but if you cannot tell us who would have been better then your 'argument' becomes fundamentally flawed.

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond

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9 hours ago, Bee said:

So Chris Grayling has said that stopping Brexit will lead to a surge in far right extremism and populism.

Brexit itself is the result of a surge in far right extremism and populism (and a lack of patriotism by any sensible measure). 

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4 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

Given that you have graciously decided to concede some ground, I do not want to see a mess made of the withdrawal from the EU. I wouldn't mind a complete clean break, possibly the most traumatic but definitely not ambivalent.

When you say  'the most traumatic' - could you expand a bit? What is it exactly in you mind when you think of this 'most traumatic? 

When you use the words 'clean break' - likewise what actually is it you think will be 'clean'? These are words, you have used them so presumably there is a picture in your mind of what they mean in actual reality and people's lives. 

'Clean break' is I think fascinating. It sort of suggests a surgical hygiene, an unencumbered freedom to start afresh, and removal of 'dirt'. but a moment of thought about the actual reality of international treaty obligation and ongoing survival, makes the language completely meaningless. There actually is no such thing as 'clean break'. The words are blah - pure blah. It is another part of a delusional language of inane metaphor and emotive slogan that seems to have bewitched those seeking refuge from reality. 

As for 'the most traumatic' this has been spelt out by those involved (aka 'experts' so not to be believed). The trauma will be quite spectacular and life shortening for a lot of vulnerable people. You wouldn't mind that though, you say? 

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1 hour ago, Iain_S said:

Agree with your first sentence: the "deal" is the worst of both worlds, and satisfies neither leavers nor remainers. It's certainly worse than remaining, as it leaves us subject to EU rules and regulations, present and future, without representation, until the EU decides otherwise. Your last sentence is inaccurate, insulting and is the sort of statement that keeps this country divided.

The wet dream of the Neoliberals is Brexit. It's not the governments circumventing the population, it's the vested interests the 1% who hold 50% of the wealth.

I'm sorry you feel insulted by a simple statement of fact. The very least we should expect of remainers is, that they understand and are honest about what it is they wish to continue being members of. The eu seeks to limit and reduce the power of countries, centralising that power within their own parliament. The whole point of the eu is to create a superstate, and the process is ongoing. The main architects of the eu openly state that countries should give up more sovereignty for the benefit of the eu project.

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Like I said previously, all brexiteers studiously avoid the main question which is, if you dislike the result that has been achieved, who would have done a better job of it. So far we've had a facetious answer (me), a non answer (anybody) and a complete evasion of the question (this reply). It's a simple question, but apparently too difficult to answer for any staunch brexiteers who just wish to complain about May's deal. I am certainly no fan of Theresa May but at least she had the guts to step up to the plate and do something, unlike all of the brexiteer MP's who bravely campaigned for the UK to leave but when they realised exactly what it would entail, did not want the job that May is currently trying to do. Complain about May if you wish to, but if you cannot tell us who would have been better then your 'argument' becomes fundamentally flawed.

Nigel Farage would have done a better job.

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7 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

It's when you see things like this happening that makes me nervous...

 

soubry.jpg.fadef9bad19e5f0e56a2c9e442aafdd2.jpg

Doesn't it just. Given that the negotiations are supposed to be at an end, and both these want a second referendum, you have to ask yourself, what the bloody hell are they up to.

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13 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

It's when you see things like this happening that makes me nervous...

 

soubry.jpg.fadef9bad19e5f0e56a2c9e442aafdd2.jpg

So the yellowcoats shouting traitor at her were right Jennifer!

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They also called her a nazi. Bit rich from a bunch of far right, err, nazis. Thankfully one of them has now been arrested.

8 minutes ago, Phil. said:

Doesn't it just. Given that the negotiations are supposed to be at an end, and both these want a second referendum, you have to ask yourself, what the bloody hell are they up to.

Taking back control on behalf of parliament.

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5 minutes ago, Proper Charlie said:

They also called her a nazi. Bit rich from a bunch of far right, err, nazis. Thankfully one of them has now been arrested.

Taking back control on behalf of parliament.

he traitor bit was right though🙃

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7 minutes ago, Proper Charlie said:

Thankfully one of them has now been arrested.

Police confirmed that a man - understood to be Goddard - was arrested outside St James Park tube station on Saturday as activists took to the streets in a 'gilet jaunes' inspired march. 

But this evening Goddard was pictured being handed a cigarette and pint at the Queens Head pub in Holborn after being released on bail. 

Wearing a red puffer jacket and Stone Island hat, he addressed a crowd who had gathered to celebrate his release this evening. 

It is understood his earlier arrest was in connection with MP Anna Soubry being harassed outside Parliament during live television interviews in College Green on Monday.   

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6 minutes ago, Proper Charlie said:

They also called her a nazi. Bit rich from a bunch of far right, err, nazis. Thankfully one of them has now been arrested.

Taking back control on behalf of parliament.

Because the voters are stupid and should not be listened to by us inteligent people.

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10 minutes ago, Proper Charlie said:

They also called her a nazi. Bit rich from a bunch of far right, err, nazis. Thankfully one of them has now been arrested.

Taking back control on behalf of parliament.

That's all right then, so long as they are not conspiring with the opposition to undermine our exit from the eu, they wouldn't be doing that now would they.

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5 minutes ago, andy3196 said:

That photograph is from reports of a meeting held almost a year ago e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/15/labour-tory-remainer-mps-brussels-meeting-eu-chief-negotiator-barnier

 

Fair enough.  So it was "almost a year ago" that they were summoned to Brussels to receive their instructions on how best to undermine Brexit and that somehow makes everything OK?

 

George

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

So the yellowcoats shouting traitor at her were right Jennifer!

 

55 minutes ago, andy3196 said:

That photograph is from reports of a meeting held almost a year ago e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/15/labour-tory-remainer-mps-brussels-meeting-eu-chief-negotiator-barnier

 

Thanks for that Andy, I genuinely didn't know. Still, they did negotiate even if it was a year ago. As did Blair, Clegg, Adonis....

Edited by Jennifer McM

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15 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

 

Thanks for that Andy, I genuinely didn't know. Still, they did negotiate even if it was a year ago. As did Blair, Clegg, Adonis....

You say negotiate as though it’s a dirty word? We are supposed to negotiate, it’s how you get the right deal.

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