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Webasto Central Heating


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Hi everyone,

 

Just a quick question about webasto central heating... firstly, are these units built to be on for long periods of time or are they more 'delicate' and should be only used for a couple of hours each time?

 

I've looked on the Webasto site and can't see anything specifically related to this or my instruction manual. Also, fuel usage seems to be a bit of a mystery too with just minimum and maximum amounts.

 

Also, our Webasto has no thermostat or anything so what ambient temperature are these units set up to by default, if applicable? It must heat the rads/water up to a certain Celsius so as not to boil the system - anyone know?

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Don’t run them from a thermostat as they like to be ran hard and don’t like to be cycled.  I wouldn’t use them for long periods personally (look at the service internal hours)    Webasto do do different kinds of heater, so presume you mean the cheaper pre-heater types.

Edited by Robbo
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1 minute ago, lewisericeric said:

Should they be limited though in terms of how long they're used for each day? Or can I leave on for hours at a time? Any issues with safety to the unit doing that?

 

For Safety it doesn’t matter.   It’s been quoted here that when they go into half power they are more likely to coke up which means more servicing.

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1 minute ago, lewisericeric said:

Should they be limited though in terms of how long they're used for each day? Or can I leave on for hours at a time? Any issues with safety to the unit doing that?

 

Over the years I have had a number of Websto & Eberspacher 'water' heaters and a couple of Eberspacher 'air-blower' heaters. They have all been treated the same way.

 

They get switched on with the room thermostat set to about 22 degrees. They cycle quite happily and if the outside temperature stays 'low' then they heater stays on until we leave the boat.

 

I would not have something where I had to keep switching it on & off.

 

I have heard (on this forum) about cycling problems & carboning up problems but (touch wood) have in 30 years of boating never experienced it,

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6 minutes ago, Robbo said:

The fuel consumption is 0.58 l/h an hour in full mode (5.2kw) and 0.30 l/h in part mode (2.5kw) looking at the manual online.

Thanks Robbo, that's what I read too earlier on. Just wonder how to keep it on and cycling like Alan does as we have no thermostat fitted to ours - it's on or it's off!

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9 minutes ago, lewisericeric said:

That's what I don't understand Alan - there is no room thermostat on this one! It's just switched on and off via the Webasto control panel?? 

Hunting around found this old post from NMEA (A Webasto agent)

 

Webasto do not make a thermostatic control for water heaters and specifically discourage their use, in fact if you fit one to a new one you will put the warranty in jeopardy. They cause short cycling and increase service costs, all the water heaters with the exception of the larger Pressure Jet models are designed to be run for a couple of hours at a time and not used like a central heating system. The wiring to fit a thermostat would be dead simple though, its simply a +dc to run and 0v to go into shutdown mode.

 

Either my memory is going, or they 'used to' but more recently they don't.

My last few boats have all been Eberspacher.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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In the manual they also quote..

Correctly load the heater. If the heater has a maximum output of 5.2Kw, (Thermotop C) then it is advisable to have a load 10% greater than the heater output. In the case of the Thermotop C the desired loading should be approximately 5.7Kw. This will ensure that the heater will fire at full load for longer and the amount of time idling will be conversely less. Operating the heater in this manner will yield a greater lifespan of the burner and increase the interval between services.

https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Webasto_Heater_Marine_Thermo_Top_installation_manual.pdf

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Hunting around found this old post from NMEA (A Webasto agent)

 

Webasto do not make a thermostatic control for water heaters and specifically discourage their use, in fact if you fit one to a new one you will put the warranty in jeopardy. They cause short cycling and increase service costs, all the water heaters with the exception of the larger Pressure Jet models are designed to be run for a couple of hours at a time and not used like a central heating system. The wiring to fit a thermostat would be dead simple though, its simply a +dc to run and 0v to go into shutdown mode.

 

Either my memory is going, or they 'used to' but more recently they don't.

My last few boats have all been Eberspacher. 

Hi Alan,

 

Ah, that's really useful - thanks! And I'm glad I'm not missing a thermostat from my system! Well, I am but you know what I mean! 

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27 minutes ago, lewisericeric said:

Ah, that's really useful - thanks! And I'm glad I'm not missing a thermostat from my system! Well, I am but you know what I mean! 

On the Webasto Website under the page for the Thermo Top C it states (Note the one I have highlighted in Red Bold) 

Maybe it just means you can turn the radiator off if you are hot, and turn it back on if you are cold. ???????

 

https://www.webasto-comfort.com/fileadmin/webasto__media/INT_Global/Datasheets/Thermo-Top-C-Thermo-Pro-50-Eco_datasheet_EN.pdf

 

Advantages

Heating comfort just like at home

Even distribution of warmth by means of radiators

Hot water for the shower and galley

Silent operation

Space-saving installation in the engine room

Excellent possibilities for combining with Webasto BlueCool air-conditioning systems

Separate temperature control in every cabin

Low fuel consumption 

Compact design

Preheating of the engine possible to avoid cold starts

Meet current requirements and standards relating to boats

Robust aluminium casing, resistant to high temperature or salt

Heat output 5.0 - 5.2 kW (17,100 - 17,700 BTU/h)

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Very surprised to read Alan De Enfields comments about just leaving the thing on for as long as needed. But my experience is quite limited. Since I had mine, I have listened out for when it slows down (the ticking of the pump) and then always turn it off. It seemed to me that that is the accepted wisdom, but as I said my experience is limited.

As an aside - perhaps someone can enlighten us as to how and indeed which bit needs servicing to avoid coke up? If it's relatively easy and inexpensive I wouldn't be averse to treating the heater less kindly.

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4 hours ago, lewisericeric said:

Hi everyone,

 

Just a quick question about webasto central heating... firstly, are these units built to be on for long periods of time or are they more 'delicate' and should be only used for a couple of hours each time?

 

I've looked on the Webasto site and can't see anything specifically related to this or my instruction manual. Also, fuel usage seems to be a bit of a mystery too with just minimum and maximum amounts.

 

Also, our Webasto has no thermostat or anything so what ambient temperature are these units set up to by default, if applicable? It must heat the rads/water up to a certain Celsius so as not to boil the system - anyone know?

I've run my top C for up to 12 hours a day in winter without any problems. It's over 10 years old and never been serviced. I reckon running them for long periods is good for them.  I think it's a falacy that they coke up running at half power. Mine goes to half power after about 30 mins. I run 3 double radiators & calorifier.

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1 hour ago, Johny London said:

Very surprised to read Alan De Enfields comments about just leaving the thing on for as long as needed. But my experience is quite limited. Since I had mine, I have listened out for when it slows down (the ticking of the pump) and then always turn it off. It seemed to me that that is the accepted wisdom, but as I said my experience is limited.

As an aside - perhaps someone can enlighten us as to how and indeed which bit needs servicing to avoid coke up? If it's relatively easy and inexpensive I wouldn't be averse to treating the heater less kindly.

I have two units and this week took one off that was just starting to play up ever so slightly. It takes minutes to change,  an absolute doddle. I will be posting this one off this week to a bloke who does a diagnostic test on it, a strip clean, decoke and new gaskets and return postage is fifty quid. At that price its not worth messing about myself and he does a good job.

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When I bought my boat, the previous owner had used the Webasto as his sole heating, leaving it on for long periods of time. As a result it coked up and he had to have it serviced every year at £150 a go,

 

My surveyor advised me to run the heating for not more than 1 hour in every 2 and service it when it begins to play up. 5 years on I have still to get it serviced, and it is working superbly well.

 

18 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I will be posting this one off this week to a bloke who does a diagnostic test on it, a strip clean, decoke and new gaskets and return postage is fifty quid. At that price its not worth messing about myself and he does a good job.

 

Care to share details of who services Webasto's that cheaply 

Edited by cuthound
Clarification
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9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

When I bought my boat, the previous owner had used the Webasto as his sole heating, leaving it on for long periods of time. As a result it coked up and he had to have it serviced every year at £150 a go,

 

My surveyor advised me to run the heating for not more than 1 hour in every 2 and service it when it begins to play up. 5 years on I have still to get it serviced, and it is working superbly well.

 

 

Care to share details of who services Webasto's that cheaply 

The Name that they get called is 'Central Heating' which implies Household standards of Running time and overall duty.truth is that they are Vehicle Pre-Heaters and are not suitable for Thousands of Hours in operation every Year.

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18 minutes ago, cuthound said:

When I bought my boat, the previous owner had used the Webasto as his sole heating, leaving it on for long periods of time. As a result it coked up and he had to have it serviced every year at £150 a go,

 

My surveyor advised me to run the heating for not more than 1 hour in every 2 and service it when it begins to play up. 5 years on I have still to get it serviced, and it is working superbly well.

 

 

Care to share details of who services Webasto's that cheaply 

Sure thing I will pm you.

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11 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

The Name that they get called is 'Central Heating' which implies Household standards of Running time and overall duty.truth is that they are Vehicle Pre-Heaters and are not suitable for Thousands of Hours in operation every Year.

Eberspacher heaters are the primary heating system for buses and coaches - I cannot imagine the coach driver having to remember to turn off the heating every hour, allow it to cool down and then switch it back on again, repeat ad infinitum.

 

As far as I am aware they are switch on & leave alone 'central heating' and I have always treated them so.

I had never heard of the 'carbon cycling problem' until I joined this forum, and have never experienced it.

 

I can only speak as I find.

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21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Eberspacher heaters are the primary heating system for buses and coaches - I cannot imagine the coach driver having to remember to turn off the heating every hour, allow it to cool down and then switch it back on again, repeat ad infinitum.

 

As far as I am aware they are switch on & leave alone 'central heating' and I have always treated them so.

I had never heard of the 'carbon cycling problem' until I joined this forum, and have never experienced it.

 

I can only speak as I find.

Have fitted and repaired many Evilsparkuniblatters since the Seventies ,they  do a Good job on Coaches and Ambulances etc.

Air combustion Heaters tend to have a longer Period between Overhaul because the Immediate area around the Combustion Chamber stays Hotter than the Water heater version ,the hotter is the less Carbon/Soot gets deposited.

If a 'Central Heating 'System was requested for a Boat The Heater Manufactures would always recommend a Pressure Jet burner type of Boiler and and not a 'Vaporising Cup Burner' type which is not for heavy duty applications.

In the Eighties Eberspacher stated that their Water and Air Heaters were not suitable for Live aboard Boats ,they got fed up with Warranty claims..

Vaporising Burners can be compared to a Lantern with a WICK the Fuel burns and produces Heat but will leave soot residue when operating at low temperatures and requires full power operation frequently.

 A Pressure Jet Burner Atomises the Fuel and is more efficient.

Weebleblaster are good on a boat for Auxillary or occasional  heating but not for use as primary Heating source

Long live the solid fuel Stove!   

 

Edited by cereal tiller
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18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I had never heard of the 'carbon cycling problem' until I joined this forum, and have never experienced it.

Eberspacher themselves concluded this after an investigation into a large number of early failures in their wet models. Their report, which I've read, is available online... Somewhere!!

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21 hours ago, cereal tiller said:

Have fitted and repaired many Evilsparkuniblatters since the Seventies ,they  do a Good job on Coaches and Ambulances etc.

Air combustion Heaters tend to have a longer Period between Overhaul because the Immediate area around the Combustion Chamber stays Hotter than the Water heater version ,the hotter is the less Carbon/Soot gets deposited.

If a 'Central Heating 'System was requested for a Boat The Heater Manufactures would always recommend a Pressure Jet burner type of Boiler and and not a 'Vaporising Cup Burner' type which is not for heavy duty applications.

In the Eighties Eberspacher stated that their Water and Air Heaters were not suitable for Live aboard Boats ,they got fed up with Warranty claims..

Vaporising Burners can be compared to a Lantern with a WICK the Fuel burns and produces Heat but will leave soot residue when operating at low temperatures and requires full power operation frequently.

 A Pressure Jet Burner Atomises the Fuel and is more efficient.

Weebleblaster are good on a boat for Auxillary or occasional  heating but not for use as primary Heating source

Long live the solid fuel Stove!   

 

A lot of problems were caused when only high sulphur diesel was available.  The problems seem to have gone away now that only low sulphur diesel is the norm.

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