Is this what we call BAD SEAMANSHIP?

[blackrose]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-46049744/barcelona-port-fire-as-ferry-crashes-into-crane#

[Sea Dog]

Well the article says: "The collision was caused by bad weather, with strong winds blowing the vessel off course, according to union bosses."  However, I'm with you.  Accidents aren't caused by bad weather, its by the potential effects of the weather not being sufficiently mitigated for.

[WotEver]

9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-46049744/barcelona-port-fire-as-ferry-crashes-into-crane#

I preferred the Larry The Cat story...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-46280468/downing-street-s-larry-the-cat-gets-a-helping-hand-from-police

[howardang]

19 minutes ago, blackrose said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-46049744/barcelona-port-fire-as-ferry-crashes-into-crane#

I am not aware of why this incident happened but it could feasibly involve some sort of engine/control breakdown. I have experience of a twin screw vessel having a similar accident in Almeria, also knocking down a crane, which was found to be a total electronic breakdown of both engine controls.  If not, and it is being blamed purely on bad weather then there seems to be strong case for bad ship handling/ seamanship. There is a well known saying in circumstances such as this. "Never go aground with an anchor in the pipe." This also definately applies to this collision!

 

Howard

 

 

[NB Lola]

I suspect the pilot will be a bit annoyed too.

[MHS]

Did the fire singe the King of Spain’s beard?

[Guest]

Too early, and too little info. to be able to determine the cause.

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, MJG said:

Too early, and too little info. to be able to determine the cause.

Not really. It happened 21 days ago so someone (several people) will have a very good idea. 

[Guest]

Just now, nicknorman said:

Not really. It happened 21 days ago so someone (several people) will have a very good idea. 

Gosh. You will know then Nick?

[Nightwatch]

11 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Well the article says: "The collision was caused by bad weather, with strong winds blowing the vessel off course, according to union bosses."  However, I'm with you.  Accidents aren't caused by bad weather, its by the potential effects of the weather not being sufficiently mitigated for.

I was reading about HMS Jupiter colliding with one of the Thames bridges some years ago. Think the skipper thought it okay with the help of tugs and misjudged the tidal flow. He got himself a Court Marshall. Probably still intoxicated from the previous night. 

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

I was reading about HMS Jupiter colliding with one of the Thames bridges some years ago. Think the skipper thought it okay with the help of tugs and misjudged the tidal flow. He got himself a Court Marshall. Probably still intoxicated from the previous night. 

Actually, there were  two tugs  were standing by but not used;  the court martial found him guilty of not using either of them, and of departing Belfast incorrectly. (I believe he departed with a flood tide, heading upstream, and didn't take notice of advice of the pilot to wait until slack water.  He didn't have enough room to complete his 180 degree turn in time -   an expensive and embarrassing lesson, all watched by the pedestrians crossing London Bridge as he hit it broadside!

 

Howard

 

 

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

He got himself a Court Marshall.

Is that a smaller version of a Field Marshall?

 

[Timx]

Excellent 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Timx
Whoops

[MtB]

15 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Well the article says: "The collision was caused by bad weather, with strong winds blowing the vessel off course, according to union bosses."  However, I'm with you.  Accidents aren't caused by bad weather, its by the potential effects of the weather not being sufficiently mitigated for.

 

Looks to me like a failure of some sort, not plain poor seamanship or bad judgement. 

 

Mechanical failure, or complete failure of whoever was supposed to be steering, to do the steering at all, so the wind took over. There seems to be no wash or anything from the bow thruster (assuming there is one). 

 

Or if that tug was supposed to be tugging, a broken line.

 

Also, I doubt this would have made the news at all had the crane not fallen over, and the video not been taken. 

[howardang]

20 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Looks to me like a failure of some sort, not plain poor seamanship or bad judgement. 

 

Mechanical failure, or complete failure of whoever was supposed to be steering, to do the steering at all, so the wind took over. There seems to be no wash or anything from the bow thruster (assuming there is one). 

 

Or if that tug was supposed to be tugging, a broken line.

 

Also, I doubt this would have made the news at all had the crane not fallen over, and the video not been taken. 

I agree that if the crane hadn't been knocked over we may well have been unaware of the incident.  I said in post 4 that it could well be a failure of some sort, which is not bad seamanship by the master. I mentioned a similar case that I was indirectly involved in some years ago, also in Spain, where a ship also knocked down a crane. It didn't catch fire but it did fall across a warehouse, flattening it! Very fortunately there were no injuries, and it wasn't made into a news story. When I was informed as Marine Ops Manager, by the ships master, both myself and the Engineering Superintendent were sceptical of the master's story that both engine controls had failed at the crucial moment, which was supposed to be impossible. However, after a lot of investigation it was discovered that there was a very remote chance of this happening given the right exceptional conditions, which had happened in this case, and the master was exonerated.   However, what could well be described as bad seamanship in this recent case is not using one or both anchors to try to avert a collision. Courts of enquiry will often criticise a master for not at least trying to slow the ship down by letting go an anchor or anchors, even if, realistically, it is too late to have a real effect. What may also be possible bad seamanship is not taking the weather into account (strong wind blowing onto the quay) and making sure a tug is ordered  before approaching anywhere near the berth, something that happens  routinely  when the wind may cause an issue. The small launch seen in the video looks too too small to be used as a tug but tugs are available in Barcelona. 

 

Howard

 

 

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, howardang said:

tugs are available in Barcelona. 

Clearly seen in the video here as one tows the ferry away. 

[howardang]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Clearly seen in the video here as one tows the ferry away. 

I don't think the workboat/launch is towing the ferry clear. I think the ferry has cleared the quay using her own engines which may point to a steering gear problem? 

 

Howard