Carbon monoxide

[bluegreencanal]

I'm asking about this as I live near a boat where charging by generator is done. My co alarm is working. My vents on the front door are huge and at least once the alarm went off when it was windy possibly because of the fire smoke blowing in. I'm interested mainly as I need a generator myself and don't wish to be a nuisance. What can I do?

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, bluegreencanal said:

I'm asking about this as I live near a boat where charging by generator is done. My co alarm is working. My vents on the front door are huge and at least once the alarm went off when it was windy possibly because of the fire smoke blowing in. I'm interested mainly as I need a generator myself and don't wish to be a nuisance. What can I do?

Use a diesel rather than a petrol engine generator - lots, lots less Co from a diesel.

 

You could always go for a built-in water cooled 'proper' boat generator but you won't get much change from £10,000

[ditchcrawler]

Or you could just make sure there are no other boats just down wind of your generator

[bluegreencanal]

We already have a line of boats -three using petrol. Is it true co can be emitted between 6 and 10 m away at dangerous levels?

18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Use a diesel rather than a petrol engine generator - lots, lots less Co from a diesel.

 

You could always go for a built-in water cooled 'proper' boat generator but you won't get much change from £10,000

I'll look into these. Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, bluegreencanal said:

We already have a line of boats -three using petrol. Is it true co can be emitted between 6 and 10 m away at dangerous levels?

In the open air that is an unanswerable question - wind strength, wind direction, moist air etc etc will all affect it.

 

Unlike (say) petrol fumes or LPG which are heavier than air, so collect in bilges, cabins, etc until it reaches a level when it goes 'BANG', Carbon Monoxide is roughly the same weight as air, so it can just 'float about' the same as air and depending on the conditions it can totally disperse (to 'safe levels') or just 'hover around', or even, if doors or windows are open, blow into your boat.

 

If I had 2 or 3 boats close & upwind of me running generators I'd certainly be moving.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[bluegreencanal]

Thanks for the helpful info.

[Eynhallow]

Take a look at the Whisper Power Piccolo 5, it's a water cooled marine diesel, rated at 3.5kW continuous, into a resistive load, and 5kVA to allow it to start things like electric motors. I fitted one last September, it cost bout £4.5K for the basic generator, which was all I needed, because it replaced a Fischer Panda 5000i, so the exhaust system was already there. It's seems to be reasonably quiet, and delivers clean 240v 50Hz power that will run a laptop or TV without a problem. It's quiet small and relatively light. On my boat it is below the saloon and although you can definitely hear if running, but you can have a normal conversation, effectively sitting on top of it. The photo is it installed, but without the acoustic shell, which makes a huge difference to the noise.

I run it for a couple of hours in the morning to charge the batteries, it's more efficient and quieter than running the main engine.

One drawback for use in a canal, is the raw water pump, the impeller does not like silt in the water, it wears the impeller out quite quickly.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Eynhallow said:

Take a look at the Whisper Power Piccolo 5, it's a water cooled marine diesel, rated at 3.5kW continuous, into a resistive load, and 5kVA to allow it to start things like electric motors. I fitted one last September, it cost bout £4.5K for the basic generator, which was all I needed,

 

That looks astonishingly neat and tidy and a hard-to-believe low price. I want one!

 

The really useful facility would be to leave it running in the boat unattended when one goes off to work and stop automatically on say, a timer, and/or be able to start/stop it remotely using one's phone. Is that possible perhaps?

 

 

 

 

[Eynhallow]

I've just got the basic controller, on/off, because that's all I need. But the generator is CAN Bus controlled, so it will work with a modern inverter charger and start and stop automatically, depending on the load and state of charge of the battery. That's about all I know, I like to keep things simple, that way I might, just might, understand how they work!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

The really useful facility would be to leave it running in the boat unattended when one goes off to work and stop automatically on say, a timer, and/or be able to start/stop it remotely using one's phone. Is that possible perhaps?

 

 

They can start / stop based on battery SoC so I'm sure there would be other start / stop options available.

 

These things are actually quite small - typically about an 18" cube.

 

The unit is not expensive but by the time you have bought the fitting kit, exhaust kit and installed it it normally doubles the price.

 

5 kVA Diesel Generator: Piccolo - WhisperPower

• Intermittent Power kW at 25°C (77°F)

  3.5 kW
• Continuous Power kVA at 25°C (77°F)

  4.4 kVA
• Continuous Power kW at 25°C (77°F)

  3 kW
• Nominal voltage / frequency

  230 VAC, 1 ph, 50 Hz (60Hz)
• Rpm range

  2400 .. 3600 rpm, adjustable or automatic
• Engine

  WhisperPower WP1
• Noise level

  54 dB(A) at 7 m, 65 dB(A) at 1m
• Length x width x height, mm (in.)

  450 x 470 x 520 (17.7 x 18.5 x 20.5)
• Dry weight (cabinet + PMG), kg (lb.)

  68 + 7,6 (150 + 16.8)

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Eynhallow said:

But the generator is CAN Bus controlled,

 

That sounds WAY too komperlicated for me!! 

[Eynhallow]

Yes, I agree, but every car built in the last 15 year or more is CAN Bus controlled, in general they are very reliable, and you just have to get use the idea that when you lift the bonnet, you don't have the foggiest idea about how you might be able to fix it.

I've had two Fischer Pandas, both totally unreliable, but neither had a single problem with the CAN Bus control.

I didn't need a fitting kit, the Piccolo 5 came with tails attached, I built a plinth or table out of heavy duty plywood, 18mm I think, on a substantial 100mm x 50mm frame and bolted it down. Connecting it up was straight forward, the only real decision to make was the exhaust (initially for the Fischer Pandas). I went for a "quiet"  exhaust system, which separate the the water from the exhaust gases. The wet exhaust drops down to a water trap, then up to a separator, the water drops down to a skin fitting under the water, and the gases to skin fitting, about 100mm above the waterline. The generator is almost silent from outside the boat. You don't need to do this, you could just run the wet exhaust to skin fitting, just like a normal diesel.

The diesel supply was taken from a manifold with a common stand pipe for the main engine, Eberspacher, and generator.  The diesel return line goes back to the tank, and is Tee'd into the main engine return line just before it enters the tank. The raw water comes from a tee on the main engine water intake, after the strainer. 12 volts to the start from the main bus bar, via a fuse and switch., and the 240AC goes into a selector switch, which selects between shore supply and generator.

The most time consuming bit was the plinth, making it strong enough (it's a seagoing boat) and the correct height above the waterline.

I hope this helps, I've been messing with generator for the last 10years, and have probably made every mistake it is possible to make!

[blackrose]

If was spending the best part of £5k on a marine diesel generator with the prospect of spending several thousand pounds more to install it, it certainly wouldn't be a 3,000 rpm generator. I'd be going for one of these:

 

https://www.northern-lights.com/m673l3g/