Please sir, can we have some diesel?

[MtB]

I feel enormously tempted to set up a diesel retail business on the Rochdale called "Rip Off Diesel', selling red for £10 a litre, or £30 service charge plus 70p a litre.

 

Anyone moaning about this being a rip off would have the sign outside the door pointed out to them.  

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Well that's EXACTLY it. Who, when running a business is sitting doing nothing waiting for a boat to come along wanting diesel?

 

Of the multitude of things a business owner chooses to do with his time, spending 15 minutes serving a customer wanting 10 litres of diesel isn't good use of it, given the astonishing price sensitivity of the buyer for the product.

 

Opportunity cost sums it up!

Maybe we will just have to disagree.

 

Would not this business owner be cruising slowly along moving from A to B looking for customers ?

 

I currently pay around 50p per litre for Gas-Oil, if it is sold at £1.00 per litre then that 15 minutes would generate me an income of £10 & a gross profit of £5.

Whilst £20 per hour may not be a sparkling rate it is certainly a good contribution to running costs.

[john6767]

18 hours ago, pearley said:

Selby Boatyard sell diesel and there are, or used to be, 3 places in Thorne. 

I don’t believe there is any Canal side deisel in Selby anymore.  Back in June is called ahead to the boat yard at Selby to ask if they sold deisel (as it said in Nicholsons), but they don’t any more.  Their suggestion is there is a petrol station close to the canal as you approach Selby.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I'm curious about these northern canals that are so big and beautiful. 

 

Why are they so under-used? 

 

 

Long trip to get to them from the Midlands, where most of the boats are, requiring time commitment. Intimidating journey there and back, either via the tidal Trent, which scares people used to ditch crawling, or over one of the three Pennine routes, with their many locks and frequent closures. Not many local boats.

From Sheffield, at the end of the South Yorkshire Nav, the nearest on-line diesel is/was Thorne. The next nearest is Goole. A trip to get diesel is a long three day journey at least, including booking passage down and up the Tinsley flight and the possibility of delay with the River Don sections being in flood. People moored here top up their tanks with jerry can Red from local garages before setting out.

 

Jen

Edited November 18, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Not many local boats.

 

This is the bit I meant. Why not many local boats? 

 

And if there are so few local boats, an so few tourist boats, why are these canals still maintained? Surely expenditure should be concentrated on canals that people actually want and use.

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is the bit I meant. Why not many local boats? 

 

And if there are so few local boats, an so few tourist boats, why are these canals still maintained? Surely expenditure should be concentrated on canals that people actually want and use.

 

 

Some of it is still used as commercial waterway and CaRT always hope to get more commercial traffic, so there is a financial incentive to keep those bits maintained. No idea why there are not more local boats. Another chicken and egg thing. Not many local boats, so not many moorings (or diesel outlets!), so not many local boats.

 

The pic is a few years old, showing a boat loaded with oil for Lemonroyd, which is no longer run, but other commercial traffic is around.

 

Jen

Edited November 18, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies

[roland elsdon]

The mark up on red diesel sold from a boat Is nothing like 50 p litre. Then there is tha capital cost, administration cost, dealing with declaration etc. thats why our boat is an ex diesel boat.

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The pic is a few years old, showing a boat loaded with oil for Lemonroyd, which is no longer run, but other commercial traffic is around.

They are opening a port up a Stourton (about half way between Lemonroyd and Leeds) if all goes well and looking to improve the navigation to take Euro Class II barges (650ton), at the moment the navigation can only do 550ton.

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Owning an exdiesel boat i sometimes consider reinstating the tanks , but what makes it not worthwhile is people wanting 10 litres...

 

I once bought 5 litres at a canalside self-service pump once. 

 

 I couldn't read the display properly as it was some distance away (well that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it). It wasn't until I went to pay, and they asked for £3 something that I realised how little I had put in. I had inteneed to putv50 litres in. I paid, apologised and went back to put another 45 litres in. They didn't bat an eyelid at my 5 litres, and said approaching winter, people often bought very small amounts to keep their tanks full to avoid condensation.

Edited November 18, 2018 by cuthound
Clarification

[Bazza954]

4 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Some of it is still used as commercial waterway and CaRT always hope to get more commercial traffic, so there is a financial incentive to keep those bits maintained. No idea why there are not more local boats. Another chicken and egg thing. Not many local boats, so not many moorings (or diesel outlets!), so not many local boats.

 

The pic is a few years old, showing a boat loaded with oil for Lemonroyd, which is no longer run, but other commercial traffic is around.

 

Jen

same craft with new paint in 2016 carrying oil to Rotherham from Goole .

Edited November 18, 2018 by Bazza954
added comments

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, Bazza954 said:

same craft with new paint in 2016 carrying oil to Rotherham from Goole .

I thought 'Humber Pride' & 'Exol Pride' were sister ships rather than the same ship renamed

 

Am I wrong ?

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought 'Humber Pride' & 'Exol Pride' were sister ships rather than the same ship renamed

 

Am I wrong ?

Looks to be a rename, they have the same IMO number..

 

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2449400

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Looks to be a rename, they have the same IMO number..

 

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2449400

Thank you - every day is a school day.

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Long trip to get to them from the Midlands, where most of the boats are, requiring time commitment. Intimidating journey there and back, either via the tidal Trent, which scares people used to ditch crawling, or over one of the three Pennine routes, with their many locks and frequent closures. Not many local boats.

From Sheffield, at the end of the South Yorkshire Nav, the nearest on-line diesel is/was Thorne. The next nearest is Goole. A trip to get diesel is a long three day journey at least, including booking passage down and up the Tinsley flight and the possibility of delay with the River Don sections being in flood. People moored here top up their tanks with jerry can Red from local garages before setting out.

 

Jen

Tully used to sell diesel, but people on the moorings buying it elsewhere meant it wasnt worth doing. [I had my own tank in the yard at my business] Now I have tullys tank and have filled it with kero because my whispergen and bubble stove use this, it is also cleaner and burns hotter

[Jen-in-Wellies]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought 'Humber Pride' & 'Exol Pride' were sister ships rather than the same ship renamed

 

Am I wrong ?

The oil traffic to Rotherham used to be done by sister ship Humber Princess, which I believe has been sold. Certainly was for sale a while back. Probably been painted white inside and is now a liveaboard in London!?

 

Jen

[pearley]

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought 'Humber Pride' & 'Exol Pride' were sister ships rather than the same ship renamed

 

Am I wrong ?

Seem to remember that Pride is one of 6 tankers built for the same contract. When we were stuck in the ice above Lemonroyd for 7 weeks during the winter of 2010 /11 it was just Humber Pride and Humber Princess. You couldn't stay in bed when they exited the lock pushing a huge sheet of ice in front, with you stuck in it! 

 

I imagine the other 4 are still in work somewhere in the country or world.  

 

I've got some photos somewhere but by the time I've found them this thread will have moved on. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by pearley

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Humber Princess is still for sale. Could I continuous cruise round the London canals in this?

http://www.alanpease.co.uk/boats/humberprincess.html

 

Jen

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Well that's EXACTLY it. Who, when running a business is sitting doing nothing waiting for a boat to come along wanting diesel?

 

Of the multitude of things a business owner chooses to do with his time, spending 15 minutes serving a customer wanting 10 litres of diesel isn't good use of it, given the astonishing price sensitivity of the buyer for the product.

 

Opportunity cost sums it up!

I know of one outlet that gives a discount when buying 100Lt +

 

[pearley]

11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Humber Princess is still for sale. Could I continuous cruise round the London canals in this?

http://www.alanpease.co.uk/boats/humberprincess.html

 

Jen

And it would seem that Humber Energy and Humber Renown are still working and that Humber Enterprise is owned by Humber Barges and is available for work. 

[Up-Side-Down]

On 17/11/2018 at 15:48, Robbo said:

If your really stuck then at Knostrop flood lock there is a Shell garage nearly half mile away from the canal that do red.   The BP station at Knostrop locks also sell red, but they a bit effy selling red as they got caught due to selling directly into cars.   There is also another shell garage here a bit further up which I think sell red.   There is also a garage near Woodlesford that sells red that is fairly cheap but I can’t remember the name, but it’s a car journey rather than walk with trolley away.

 

Point of order m'lud: Knostrop Flood Lock no longer exists ..............

[Robbo]

1 minute ago, Up-Side-Down said:

 

Point of order m'lud: Knostrop Flood Lock no longer exists ..............

Didn’t mean lock either I meant gates,  it’s still marked on canalplan, but it’s now redundant.    There is some moorings at the footbridge over the river bit if anyone needs to use.

[Alan de Enfield]

If you want to be all law-abiding then you shouldn't be buying Red from a garage.

 

Red Diesel (Gas-Oil) sold by garages is aimed at the agricultural market which are exempt from the duty that boaters MUST pay, so you are buying agricultural diesel and putting it in your boat.

 

Norty - Norty - Norty

 

(You could always work out how much you owe and forward a cheque onto HMRC and you'd have a clear conscience.)

 

Gas oil intended for use as 'propulsion' in leisure boats has a duty rate of 57.95 pence per litre (ppl). Gas oil intended for other uses is entitled to a rebate of 46.81ppl giving an effective rate of 11.14ppl.

 

So you can, should you so wish, send your 46.81 ppl to HMRC for all your propulsion fuel.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Robbo]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you want to be all law-abiding then you shouldn't be buying Red from a garage.

 

Red Diesel (Gas-Oil) sold by garages is aimed at the agricultural market which are exempt from the duty that boaters MUST pay, so you are buying agricultural diesel and putting it in your boat.

 

Norty - Norty - Norty

 

(You could always work out how much you owe and forward a cheque onto HMRC and you'd have a clear conscience.)

You can use for heating and generator it’s not just for agricultural use.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Robbo said:

You can use for heating and generator it’s not just for agricultural use.

Indeed, which is why I said Primarily.

Some 15% of the total (white and red) diesel is used by Agriculture which is why the Government have started an investigation in to red diesel usage as of this year.

[Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Indeed, which is why I said Primarily.

Some 15% of the total (white and red) diesel is used by Agriculture which is why the Government have started an investigation in to red diesel usage as of this year.

But you said I shouldn’t buy from a garage, there is no legal reason why I should buy from a garage.   I’m paying the same duty if I was to buy at a marine place, although I may be forced to pay more duty at a marine place as many places you can’t delclare the percentage you use for propulsion.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Robbo