Information on history of Guppyanna

[Alan de Enfield]

49 minutes ago, Trina said:

Would I be able to change the prop? My worry is about the handling of it. 

Not really - the distance between the prop shaft and the cavitation plate is fixed so you cannot get a bigger propeller with an OB.

 

You can put 'big' props on an inboard engine with a 'shaft' by setting the angle of the shaft and the 'bottom' of the boat.

 

A boat with an inboard engine and a shaft drive will look like this - as you can see the hull of the boat has to be shaped to a 'point' to allow a flow of water over the prop.

 

 

 

 

With an OB engine the propeller 'hangs' below the boat - this makes 'shaping' the backend unnecessary but as the shaft & propeller is hanging down below the boat it makes it very vulnerable to hitting shopping trolleys, bricks, and the 'bottom' in 'shallow water'

 

Showing how a OB hangs down lower than the boat :

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Trina]

The OB looks really vulnerable. I better start saving for an inboard. Thankyou so much for passing on this knowledge. Really appreciate it. ?

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Trina said:

The OB looks really vulnerable. I better start saving for an inboard. Thankyou so much for passing on this knowledge. Really appreciate it. ?

Plenty of folks have them - you just need to be aware of the issues.

The issue for you is that the boat design, an outboard engine, and the Rivers Trent & Yorkshie Ouse are not good bedfellows.

[70liveaboard]

Hello Trina (OP), I hope you still pop in from time to time.

I think your boat may have originally come from the same builders as this (Quay Point): https://london.boatshed.com/wide_beam_40ft_with_london_mooring-boat-244221.html

 

Also I have a pic (below) from a little time back one of the family took whilst down working on a widebeam nearby (can't recall where he said he was).

Anyway, he said it was 25ft in length and was up for sale, not sure of the price, but he had a look around it, because well, it was so 'different' looking.

 

The link above is a 40ft wide beam version (I saw this a while back). I would think the larger boats were probably more for houseboat type use, outboard just to potter them from location to nearby other location, can't see the wide beam sailing well, although on a canal, perhaps, who knows.

 

This smaller boat with an outboard, would be o.k. for sailing I would think (canals), not sure in a wind though. It's the most basic design, but would work reasonably well, provided an additional rudder/fin was attached to the engine, just to give it more control. This is front steered, which I would imagine is quite pleasant, i.e. less  engine sound, although would take a while to get used too handling perhaps, certainly for me.

 

 

Your boat may have been altered at the stern, 'if' it is one of these. Of course it may not be one of these.

 

The integral steel side lockers to the stern, that you see a door too in the pic here, were for gas and other side petrol tank, large hand held type in this one, he said. So looks like your boat has this cut away, if indeed it is one.

 

Main details he was given for this 25ft, those he can think of; fixed double berth across the back with an escape hatch to the rear, loo/shower, full cooker, double glazed windows and central heating, 9.9hp Yamaha petrol outboard. Seems to be a basic 4 berth layout.

This pic is going back a little time, maybe a year or two, so no idea if it was sold and indeed for how much. He can't remember a price for it.

 

For me, I can't make my mind up if they were built primarily as houseboats, but perhaps built the odd small one like this 25', or vice versa. The design would suit houseboat much more really, for me anyway. Not sure if the builders are still around or not, looked but I can't find anything.

 

Hope it helps a little.

 

You've made a nice job of your boat. Looking at those first pics of a burnt out shell, well, you have worked wonders on it.

[Peter X]

I hadn't noticed this topic when it first appeared last year but found it an interesting read. A few points occur to me:

 

That formula for maximum speed for a hull sounds very optimistic to me when applied to yer average narrow boat. 8 knots for a 40 footer? It would work out at almost 11 knots for a full length boat, and I really don't think Nuneaton could achieve anything like that! Maybe the formula is for boats with a much more streamlined shape?

 

Personally the idea of any petrol engine on a boat worries me, especially in the confined spaces of locks and tunnels. I learnt this week that they're not allowed in Standedge tunnel for example, and I'm guessing that the dangers of petrol are one of the reasons that the EA have a rule on the Thames that engines must be turned off in locks. In practice I've found they don't always enforce that rule, maybe when there's no petrol engined boat in the lock.

 

If I were the OP, who apparently has decent knowledge of steel fabrication, I'd be looking to do both the following changes some people recommended: an extra pointy bit on the front to make the boat more efficient, and an extension at the back to accommodate an inboard diesel engine. I suppose the latter would cost a fair bit of their time and thousands for the engine (plus steel, prop, rudder, tiller), but the end result should be worth it and make the boat worth more if/when resold. It ought then to be capable of going on most normal rivers, at least the non-tidal parts; if there's been enough rain to raise levels, just play it safe and wait!

 

How did the OP get on? It's always nice if people return to a topic to let us know the outcome.

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, Peter X said:

I hadn't noticed this topic when it first appeared last year but found it an interesting read. A few points occur to me:

 

That formula for maximum speed for a hull sounds very optimistic to me when applied to yer average narrow boat. 8 knots for a 40 footer? It would work out at almost 11 knots for a full length boat, and I really don't think Nuneaton could achieve anything like that! Maybe the formula is for boats with a much more streamlined shape?

 

You are probably correct. The reason is that the 1.3 that Harold gave in his formula is actually the hull constant that is worked out out by the naval architect who designed the boat. I  very much doubt a naval architect has been anywhere near the design of most narrowboat hulls so the constant is unknown. I also suspect power and prop size may limit a typical narrowboat's speed

 

[RichLech]

Does anyone have any information about the builder David Browne & Son. I have one of his boats built in 2005. It is a fairly normal semi-trad 52 ft boat. I was told it was one of two built by David Browne and sold through Tingdene. This post is the first time I have seen any other reference to David Browne as a builder.

[Jim Riley]

Just come across this thread, I need to correct some of the stuff posted, certainly wrong that a NB with an OB is less manoeuvrable. Utter rubbish. 

I have a Honda 20 with a high thrust prop on shoving a 35fter. Stops and starts fine, highly manoeuvrable, challenge any fixed prop NB to a reversing race, easy win. I've put a hinged guard round the engine, button fender on the back of that. Prop clearing is easy. 

One issue is electrickery, used to be a problem but now I have led lights, 130ah of solar on the roof, 400ah of batteries, OB puts out 12ah, job sorted. I did splash out on a 12v compressor freezer box, though the cool cupboard over the bilge still gets used too. 

When I bought the Hull it only had a Honda 10, that was too small, especially for stopping. As for an outboard needing to be deeper than the Hull, not necessary, mine sits a bit further back than the original prop, still draws water by the swim, as the original prop did. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Jim Riley

[70liveaboard]

17 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Just come across this thread, I need to correct some of the stuff posted, certainly wrong that a NB with an OB is less manoeuvrable. Utter rubbish. 

I have a Honda 20 with a high thrust prop on shoving a 35fter. Stops and starts fine, highly manoeuvrable, challenge any fixed prop NB to a reversing race, easy win. I've put a hinged guard round the engine, button fender on the back of that. Prop clearing is easy. 

One issue is electrickery, used to be a problem but now I have led lights, 130ah of solar on the roof, 400ah of batteries, job sorted. I did splash out on a 12v compressor freezer box, though the cool cupboard over the bilge still gets used too. 

When I bought the Hull it only had a Honda 10, that was too small, especially for stopping. 

Yes, I think being directly linked to the OB as you are there, then it would be pretty good control wise, I have sailed a boat with the same config as yours there. Through a steering wheel, as the 25ft is above, plus the wheel at the front of the boat, certainly for anyone that is more familiar to steering from the stern, would perhaps, take a little time to get used to it. But as with anything, just time.

 

[magpie patrick]

41 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

 

The juxta-position of dry-dock and pub looks far too good to be true - where is it? 

 

As for the OP - if that boat were on the midland canals I'd leave it as it is, it has character, is a welcome change to the clone-craft and would be fine with an outboard on, say the, Shroppie. I'm less sure about the Ouse though, and I'm not even sure I'd be that confident in Juno (23 foot viking cruiser) on the tidal waters leading to the Humber, she'd handle well enough, but could I handle her?

[70liveaboard]

12 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

The juxta-position of dry-dock and pub looks far too good to be true - where is it? 

 

As for the OP - if that boat were on the midland canals I'd leave it as it is, it has character, is a welcome change to the clone-craft and would be fine with an outboard on, say the, Shroppie. I'm less sure about the Ouse though, and I'm not even sure I'd be that confident in Juno (23 foot viking cruiser) on the tidal waters leading to the Humber, she'd handle well enough, but could I handle her?

Hebden Bridge.

[Jim Riley]

2 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

The juxta-position of dry-dock and pub looks far too good to be true - where is it? 

 

As for the OP - if that boat were on the midland canals I'd leave it as it is, it has character, is a welcome change to the clone-craft and would be fine with an outboard on, say the, Shroppie. I'm less sure about the Ouse though, and I'm not even sure I'd be that confident in Juno (23 foot viking cruiser) on the tidal waters leading to the Humber, she'd handle well enough, but could I handle her?

My first boat was 17.5 ft cruiser with 10hp, went to York in her, 2nd boat a Dawncraft 22 again with a Honda 10, went York and ripon, also Keadby to Nottingham, no problem. Yes that's Hebden Bridge Dry Dock, booked through Calderdale Council.

Bronte Boats is there, with Andy, a good welder, if you need owt doing. 

[Trina]

It's good to hear all the alternative suggestions offered. Much appreciated. Just trying to build my coffers up before I do anything to guppyanna at the moment but an outboard with a guard on seems the most likely bet. Also good to see a pic of a similar design to my boat. Thanks?

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, Trina said:

It's good to hear all the alternative suggestions offered. Much appreciated. Just trying to build my coffers up before I do anything to guppyanna at the moment but an outboard with a guard on seems the most likely bet. Also good to see a pic of a similar design to my boat. Thanks?

Just a reminder that the Trent is a very different waterway to a canal.

Yes OB powered NBs boats are fine on the canals but are not ideal on a tidal river with a flow that can run at speeds higher than the OB can provide.

If you were suggesting usage on the canals I'd agree, but your self-declared plans are for the Yorkshire Ouse and the River Trent.

 

 

Your boat, your choice but just think carefully before acting.

[TheBiscuits]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just a reminder that the Trent is a very different waterway to a canal.

Yes OB powered NBs boats are fine on the canals but are not ideal on a tidal river with a flow that can run at speeds higher than the OB can provide.

If you were suggesting usage on the canals I'd agree, but your self-declared plans are for the Yorkshire Ouse and the River Trent.

 

 

Your boat, your choice but just think carefully before acting.

Edited June 26, 2019 by TheBiscuits

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

I am not seeing whatever you posted - just a 'black x'

[Trina]

Thanks I will. I'm on the river now so I've seen the force and power it generates especially when it floods. ?

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am not seeing whatever you posted - just a 'black x'

Swapped a webp image for a jpeg.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

Swapped a webp image for a jpeg.

Got it.

 

That's not a narrowboat so I claim my point still stands !!!!!