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Planning to take the plunge


joe hoyle

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Hi everyone, 

 

For about two years I've been following the threads on here with the intention that someday my partner and I would finally move onto the canals and enjoy the life we've been dreaming of. Well it turns out this may actually happen in the next 6-12 months so I was hoping that I could get some advice on any of the many questions we have! 

 

A little about us; We're based in the south, both in mid 30's. Our nearest canal is the K&A, and while we'd be looking at using this canal, our main intention is to continuously cruise. Both our work allows us to move freely. Theres no kids, and unlikely to be any in the near future, but we do have two lovely springer spaniels :) 

 

Our first and usual conundrum is the narrow vs wide beam. I've read pretty much all the topics relating to this I can find, but it's still difficult to imagine living on boat less than 7' wide for extended periods. When we've rented narrowboats (usually with friends but have done several times just the two of us and dogs), we've managed fine, but the idea of just a little more width seems just too good an idea to dismiss. 

 

Originally we'd intended to commission a dutch barge build (55 x 12) and spend a year or two in the UK before heading off to Europe, and if all the southern widebeam network were suitable, we'd probably still be considering this. As it is though, we'd probably be cruising bristol, oxford, london and back again route. As I understand it, the K&A is just not suitable for such a boat - It seems barely capable with a standard wide beam. And we don't want the hassle of finding large enough visitor moorings or annoying other boaters on the other canals. 

 

We know we want to cruise in England before Europe, so we then thought "why avoid a narrowboat?" - especially if it means we can go further and see more. But as beautiful as they look, and the ease of navigation, I have three probably silly but main concerns!

 

1st - our dogs get in the way! Every time we've rented, our boys get under our feet in the tight spaces! They do tend to follow us around, and they might get used to this pretty quickly and learn to stay clear but it has given me pause! 

 

2nd - the lack of a comfy sofa to cuddle up and watch a film! We don't want separate chairs. We're romantics and love to cuddle up in the evenings. All the narrowboats I've looked at seem impractical with a larger comfy sofa, and usually just have boxed in affairs with pads. 

 

3rd - motorbikes! We understand we're going to have to sell our cars, but we both love to ride. We want to be able to take a bike out to explore more than just the canal side in new areas we're visiting. I've seen a few discussions about them on narrowboats on here, but does anyone have advice on anything other than a 125cc bike system that'll work? We'll look into a light bike, but we'll want to have some fun, so ideally something in the 600cc weight range. 

 

So those are the main issues with going full hog narrowboat. Any opinions on any of the points would be massively welcome! When we do one day head off to Europe, we'd sell and buy a more suitable boat for those canals and rivers. Is there a third option though? Would a 9' beam be ok? I know it limits us for the midlands, but we're happy on the southern network, and it would alleviate all the concerns above. The wide beam map doesn't say how far you can get on various widths, so potentially I could take a 14' nearly up to Birmingham! 

 

Apologies for the long post, and this is only the first question! Hopefully in the next year we'll be on the water and actually getting to know some of you! 

 

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There are lots of widebeams on the K&A, and even a couple of "small ships" but it can get a bit stressful in a few places.

9 foot is a bit of a no mans land, not much wider than a narrowboat but still unable to cruise the narrow canals.

14 foot is just too wide for a canal boat. You would be unlikely to get to Birmingham, lack of dredging, off side vegetation, and even a bridge or two will likely stop you. If you want a wide canalboat then about 12 foot is probably the best compromise.

 

Ask yourself.....are you really going to go to Europe?? or is this just a half baked dream?  Get a boat for what you really are going to do. Loads of people get a 57 foot narrowboat (rather than 70 foot) so they can go up North but likely never get beyond the Shropshire union and Trent and Mersey.

 

Two people and two dogs will be fine on a narrowboat. Two people and 5 GSD's has been done, 2 people and 7 lurchers has been done.

 

A suitable sofa will fit on a narrowboat, "Captains chairs" are very popular but not compulsory, a sofa is much nicer.

 

Some bits of the North are rather better than anything in the South.

 

...............Dave 

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4 minutes ago, dmr said:

Ask yourself.....are you really going to go to Europe?? or is this just a half baked dream? 

Is basically what the OH says to me all the time... And it probably is a dream, but dreams are lovely! 

 

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

There are lots of widebeams on the K&A

Yes but do boaters get annoyed with them? We don't want to be those people that cause chaos round bends. We genuinely want to continuously cruse, so finding a boat size that fits the waterways we want to use but doesn't cause havoc everywhere is what we're looking for. 

 

I do think we'll end up with a narrowboat, I'm just trying to look at solving the problems we do know before we do take that plunge and experience all the problems we don't know! 

 

Thanks for the quick response Dave :) 

 

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Your words, "As it is though, we'd probably be cruising bristol, oxford, london and back again route."

Why not get to Oxford and keep going north for a year, then back down to London? If so, a 57 ft narrowboat is probably the answer.

I'm sure the dogs will learn to tolerate you!

After 2 years whe you've conquered the UK, sell up and buy a barge, which is far more suitable (and safer) for continental europe.  

  • Greenie 1
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Don't dismiss a 9' widebeam.  I knew someone with an 8' widebeam which I assumeday first was the stupidest boat width of all.  But inside, that extra foot seemed to make a huge difference to the living area.  They had facing sofas in the lounge area which just isn't possible in a 6'10" boat.  A 9' boat would be fairly easy to navigate but would provide much better space for you and your dogs.  Also, that 9 width would probably put off a lot of buyers so prices might be very good in the second hand market.  I wouldn't have a new boat commissioned until you've been boat owners for a few years.  That way you'll learn exactly what you want.

  • Greenie 1
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Please don't get into the "I can go up there with this" fat boat brigade.

 

You will have a MUCH happier time if you fit and don't challenge

 

IMHO the 57ft myth is exactly that we have cruised very happily in 60ft+ for nearly 30 years so go for extra length rather than width.

 

Tugs work well with dogs if you are happy to use the under deck area as a kennel - we have done that with 4 dogs very successfully.

 

Make the decision to go narrow and then decide on length style engine room etc - don't dismiss engine rooms they are a godsend in wet weather when you have a pile of wet clothes, wet dog towels and your shoes to dry - they are like having a warm utility room available.

 

I'm guessing that budget isn't a major issue for you??

 

 

Edited by Halsey
  • Greenie 3
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I will give you a condensed reply all from experience. A widebeam is MUCH MUCH more comfortable to live on. BUT it is simply an impossibility to cruise the UK inland waterways in one. The K and A is too small a canal for a widebeam as is the GU without peeing yourself and others off. If you go narrow forget the 57 foot mularky, we have all fallen for that yarn down the years. Go for 70 or as near as possible you still have a hell of a lot of cruising area. There are many well intentioned replies going to come your way but many have never lived aboard or owned widebeams and narrowbeams so the replies will be such that you will need to pick the bones out of them. For instance plenty of people live happily on sub 60 foot narrowboats.

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50 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

A tug style n.boat is also ideal for transporting the motorbike.. Anything with a well deck and you’ll be into lifting arms or drop down sides. And can we all keep the 57’ myth going please, it keeps the prices down on longer boats. 

I have looked into the possibility of having a motorbike aboard.On a narrowbeam the only bikes I think are  suitable are a Honda Monkeybike, or a Chinese copy. A pushbike is of course the easiest to to get on and off the boat.

I hadn't thought of a tug style boat,but now it has been mentioned,it should be possible to load a bigger bike with a suitable ramp.

Some of the adventure type bikes [but not all] are lighter than road bikes. My personal choice would be the MZ Mastiff. 660cc Yamaha engine and although I don't know the weight offhand,it was much easier to push up the slope to my garage than the Suzuki Bandit I had before it.

When I am looking for another boat I will certainly look at tug style ones.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I have looked into the possibility of having a motorbike aboard.On a narrowbeam the only bikes I think are  suitable are a Honda Monkeybike, or a Chinese copy. A pushbike is of course the easiest to to get on and off the boat.

I hadn't thought of a tug style boat,but now it has been mentioned,it should be possible to load a bigger bike with a suitable ramp.

Some of the adventure type bikes [but not all] are lighter than road bikes. My personal choice would be the MZ Mastiff. 660cc Yamaha engine and although I don't know the weight offhand,it was much easier to push up the slope to my garage than the Suzuki Bandit I had before it.

When I am looking for another boat I will certainly look at tug style ones.

 

I know of  tug which carries a Harley Trike on the front and its works well!!

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If you want to CC and explore then get a 70 foot narrowboat with a tug deck and engine room, then exchange it for a dutch barge if and when you go to Europe (or if you can afford it have two boats).

 

Find a nice second hand boat. Don't even think about specifying a new build till you have several years boating experience.

68 ish foot would be much much easier to handle in locks but if you enjoy a challenge and wan't to develop good boating skills then go for 70 foot.

 

Most dogs will learn how to live on a boat without getting too much in the way.

 

...........Dave

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Wow thanks everyone for the detailed replies everyone! 

 

I do love the idea of a tug for the motorbike and an engine room would also keep me happy whilst also having a good drying area. 

 

The main reason we’re doing this is to explore. I think well definitely get a narrow boat. Having looked at Apollo for barges and Widebeams for so long, I hadnt really realised how well some Narrowboats are designed for the sofa areas etc. 

 

We went to crick last year and saw some lovely new boats, however we decided then that we’d not like to buy new as they can experience so many teething problems. A tried and tested boat will keep us less stressed in the first year. 

 

I guess the dogs will have to learn to keep from under our feet! 

 

I have loads of other questions I’ll no doubt be asking in the future. But another big worry for us is winter mooring the boat. We want to have a small flat somewhere we can winter up, but how difficult is getting a winter mooring? Am I right in thinking these are bid for on the 1st October each year? And will a boat be safe leaving alone for two or three months during winter if not in a marina? 

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What about using a butty for the bikes?   It will keep them out of the way, more secure, and you'll have more storage space for other stuff.    As a butty I think their's a 50% discount on the license (for the butty).

Edited by Robbo
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20 minutes ago, joe hoyle said:

Wow thanks everyone for the detailed replies everyone! 

 

I do love the idea of a tug for the motorbike and an engine room would also keep me happy whilst also having a good drying area. 

 

The main reason we’re doing this is to explore. I think well definitely get a narrow boat. Having looked at Apollo for barges and Widebeams for so long, I hadnt really realised how well some Narrowboats are designed for the sofa areas etc. 

 

We went to crick last year and saw some lovely new boats, however we decided then that we’d not like to buy new as they can experience so many teething problems. A tried and tested boat will keep us less stressed in the first year. 

 

I guess the dogs will have to learn to keep from under our feet! 

 

I have loads of other questions I’ll no doubt be asking in the future. But another big worry for us is winter mooring the boat. We want to have a small flat somewhere we can winter up, but how difficult is getting a winter mooring? Am I right in thinking these are bid for on the 1st October each year? And will a boat be safe leaving alone for two or three months during winter if not in a marina? 

Just put the boat into a marina for the winter, lots of them have space.

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19 minutes ago, joe hoyle said:

Lol I sent this link to my partner this morning and got an excited reply that the deck might be long enough for two bikes! 

 

https://m.apolloduck.com/boat/david-harris/579188

 

I’ve made it clear one will be sufficient though! 

FYI - the last 3 DH's sold (last 3 months) went for sub £65k - there was a nice one close to you on the Severn - Viscount?

Also, and some will shout me down, but IMHO JP2's are getting expensive to look after 

Edited by Halsey
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Winter boating and cruising can be lovely, why do you need a winter mooring and a flat? Either put the flat money towards your "Europe" boat or rent a flat out for some extra income.  Minimum CC requirements are to move every two weeks which is not difficult and the water tank needs filling every week or two anyway, so gently moving through the winter makes sense. The mud on the towpath is the only drawback, especially with dogs.

 

..............Dave

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23 minutes ago, joe hoyle said:

 

 

We went to crick last year and saw some lovely new boats, however we decided then that we’d not like to buy new as they can experience so many teething problems. A tried and tested boat will keep us less stressed in the first year. 

 

 

Good decision - out of 11 boats over 30 years the only one which caused us problems was a new one!

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https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/watersport-en-boten/platbodems/m1223064307-platbodem-tjalk-16-5-bij-3-2.html  I found that in just a couple of minutes looking. No idea what its like but it would serve very well for what you are looking for and its beautiful. Spent half an hour looking at boats for sale at Whilton yesterday just out of curiosity and found the boats on offer uninspiring to say the least and not very good value for money. (that's not a dig at Whilton either) PM me if you want a bit of general info on Europe.

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3 minutes ago, Bee said:

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/watersport-en-boten/platbodems/m1223064307-platbodem-tjalk-16-5-bij-3-2.html  I found that in just a couple of minutes looking. No idea what its like but it would serve very well for what you are looking for and its beautiful. Spent half an hour looking at boats for sale at Whilton yesterday just out of curiosity and found the boats on offer uninspiring to say the least and not very good value for money. (that's not a dig at Whilton either) PM me if you want a bit of general info on Europe.

You do know you’ve posted that before the watershed!

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1 hour ago, joe hoyle said:

Wow thanks everyone for the detailed replies everyone! 

 

I do love the idea of a tug for the motorbike and an engine room would also keep me happy whilst also having a good drying area. 

 

The main reason we’re doing this is to explore. I think well definitely get a narrow boat. Having looked at Apollo for barges and Widebeams for so long, I hadnt really realised how well some Narrowboats are designed for the sofa areas etc. 

 

We went to crick last year and saw some lovely new boats, however we decided then that we’d not like to buy new as they can experience so many teething problems. A tried and tested boat will keep us less stressed in the first year. 

 

I guess the dogs will have to learn to keep from under our feet! 

 

I have loads of other questions I’ll no doubt be asking in the future. But another big worry for us is winter mooring the boat. We want to have a small flat somewhere we can winter up, but how difficult is getting a winter mooring? Am I right in thinking these are bid for on the 1st October each year? And will a boat be safe leaving alone for two or three months during winter if not in a marina? 

Most marinas will be able to provide you with a winter mooring if you want one. It isn't just CRT that provide these.

 

As others have said though winter cruising is very special.

 

You could of course cruise for a few weeks and then have a few weeks in a marina if you fancy a break from the cruising. You will always find a visitors berth in a marina somewhere.

27 minutes ago, Bee said:

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/watersport-en-boten/platbodems/m1223064307-platbodem-tjalk-16-5-bij-3-2.html  I found that in just a couple of minutes looking. No idea what its like but it would serve very well for what you are looking for and its beautiful. Spent half an hour looking at boats for sale at Whilton yesterday just out of curiosity and found the boats on offer uninspiring to say the least and not very good value for money. (that's not a dig at Whilton either) PM me if you want a bit of general info on Europe.

Lovely boats those but seriously lacking in head room. I am not tall by any means but even I have had to duck in some of them!

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5 hours ago, Halsey said:

Please don't get into the "I can go up there with this" fat boat brigade.

 

You will have a MUCH happier time if you fit and don't challenge

 

IMHO the 57ft myth is exactly that we have cruised very happily in 60ft+ for nearly 30 years so go for extra length rather than width.

 

Tugs work well with dogs if you are happy to use the under deck area as a kennel - we have done that with 4 dogs very successfully.

 

Make the decision to go narrow and then decide on length style engine room etc - don't dismiss engine rooms they are a godsend in wet weather when you have a pile of wet clothes, wet dog towels and your shoes to dry - they are like having a warm utility room available.

 

I'm guessing that budget isn't a major issue for you??

 

 

 

We live on our 65 foot Aqualine and don't find it too restrictive. I've cruised most of the canals that our boat won't fit as a hirer. We have friends on the nb Clara, who have a big purpose built cratch that takes their Harley! It even has a lift! So any things possible. A sofa is more comfy and more friendly when others come visiting plus you can store stuff - very important! Have a look around and chat to folk.

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12 minutes ago, Profzarkov said:

We live on our 65 foot Aqualine and don't find it too restrictive. I've cruised most of the canals that our boat won't fit as a hirer. We have friends on the nb Clara, who have a big purpose built cratch that takes their Harley! It even has a lift! So any things possible. A sofa is more comfy and more friendly when others come visiting plus you can store stuff - very important! Have a look around and chat to folk.

I saw a YouTube video a while back where somebody did just that (it may have been your friend) I'm sure if the OP rummages about they'll find it. It was about how they did it not just that they did it so it may be worth a hunt for it. 

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