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Battery wiring at fault? 12v socket reading jumping.


Lady_Why

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Even if I only get a year out of them, it would be better than nothing. I would literally only need the inverter for the occasional sewing job and fancy-hair-roller-thing; the laptop I charge in cafes.  I'd even live without a fridge until summer if I can recover some of my loss.

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3 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:


I was hoping that the leisures holding their charge would indicate that they're still alive... but then I would hope that.  ?  

 

Batteries don't suddenly die, they progressively degrade. So yours are bound to have lost some capacity, we just don't know how much yet. It could be that they are still just fine for your needs.

 

To help me avoid reading the whole thread again, could you refresh my memory about how this problem arose please? Have you just bought the boat, or been aboard for years? What exaclty prompted you to buy new batts in the first place? And do you run a fridge?  

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

 I am thinking of deserting engine-charging completely and move on to the genny  - but I'm not sure whether to clamp the genny onto the starter or a leisure given that the starter is making noises. 

Give that a try, what do you have to lose? I’d suggest charging the leisures, firstly because they’re reading the lowest and secondly because the starter obviously has enough in it for now as it’s starting the engine. 

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6 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

I am just wondering what to do meanwhile. I am thinking of deserting engine-charging completely and move on to the genny  - but I'm not sure whether to clamp the genny onto the starter or a leisure given that the starter is making noises. 

Have you tried the genny? 

 

Not the small 12V socket/leads (ignore them, they are pointless for you) but the main 240V connected to your boat and then switch on the battery charger.

 

It *might* just be able to cope with your charger, and the only way to find out is to try it.

 

It won't be able to power anything else if your battery charger is going flat out, so make sure everything else is switched off first.

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14 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

I am just wondering what to do meanwhile.

 

Ideally disconnect the fridge, use as little electricity as possible and charge them as much as poss. 

 

For best charging, I'd say try plugging the Sterling charger directly into the 240v mains output socket on your new genny and see if the genny will run the charger. Failure to run it will show up as the genny stalling, or the leeetle overload button on the genny popping out. Make sure the two output wires from the genny are actually connected to your bank of four new batteries, not something else!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Add a bit more!
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By all means try the genny but if it tries to rev up and dies you know it can't supply the power the charger demands. The bets answer maybe to see if a neighbour could lend you a 20 amp or less charger for the next day or so. If you have the 12V "charging" lead for the generator then even that would be better than nothing but probably only about 5 to 8 amps. Over 10 hours that will give you about 50 Ah except it will be less in practice.

 

If the genny revs up and stays running the  carry on, best let it warm up for several minutes before you connect it to anything.

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I have yet to learn the genny - it's today's big task! Got oil and petrol on the ready though, and a lead which can connect the 240v output on the genny with my mains socket and then a switch which will take that incoming charge through the sterling. It would have to sit on the stern though (limited cable reach) and I have no earth yet. 

This said, going back to the origins of things (I have lived in a marina for years, but cruise since Sept due to sharp fee increases), my old batteries were fizzing for a long time which is a concern as I was on the mains at the time and it is unclear what caused them to overcharge (now that I know what causes fizzing!). My fridge has been switched off pretty much since cruising as it is old and I suspect the load has increased.

A little confused about the two wires you mention, Mike. Surely I don't clamp on AND plug in both at the same time; is it not that I choose to do it with clamps OR charger? Confused.

 

11 minutes ago, NB Lola said:

Chin up, we are all here to help, in one way or another.  Let’s see how Tony gets on first.

All moral support has been invaluable too. ❤️

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And because no-one has said it yet...

 

1. Start the genny. If it won’t start despite your best efforts, check the oil level.

 

2. If the charger is not already connected to the batteries connect one output to the leisure bank. However it appears from your photos it’s permanently connected; if so then skip this step. 

 

3. Ensure the charger (and every other 230V appliance) is switched off. 

 

4. Plug the genny into the boat. 

 

5. Switch on the charger. 

 

6. Observe what the genny does. It should speed up to full revs. Hopefully it will stay running and not stall or overload. 

 

Good luck :)

 

2 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

A little confused about the two wires you mention, Mike.

He got a bit mixed up in his description there. If the charger is not permanently wired in then attach one output to the batteries first, then plug it in, then switch it on. 

3 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

I have no earth yet. 

Not an important consideration at this point. It’s arguably safer without one, but the RCD on the boat won’t operate without one. It’s a perennial argument that goes round and round. 

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9 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

A little confused about the two wires you mention, Mike. Surely I don't clamp on AND plug in both at the same time; is it not that I choose to do it with clamps OR charger? Confused.

 

The charger is the Sterling 4 step thing. It takes 240v mains electricity and reduces it to about 14v for battery charging.

 

So there will be a cable from it for attaching to the 240v mains electricity supply. This may already be wired into your boat 240v wiring, or it may be a cable with an ordinary three pin mains plug on the end. I was assuming the latter. You write however as though it is wired into the boat mains wiring which has a blue socket on the outside of the boat for the shoreline to plug into.  If this is the case then as Wotever describes, plug the genny 240v output into this blue socket. Then make sure the inverter (next to the charger) is switched off.

 

The charger will also have two wires coming out of it for connecting to the batteries, possibly permanently connected up too. Make sure they go to the right batteries, your new set of four. 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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14 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Get a longer cable ASAP. Today, if you can. Chain the genny to the boat to stop it going walkies. 

We don't want you logging on tomorrow to tell us you have died of Co poisoning.

 

Just to repeat :

 

Get a longer cable ASAP. Today

 

RUN THE GENERATOR ON THE BANK, DOWNWIND OF THE BOAT.

 

 

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Ah ok, my confusion arose as you guys clearly have different set ups to me. My blue mains socket is indoors and internally wired to the charger through a switch, so I simply plug in and turn the switch. The wires that go from the charger down to my batteries are similarly part of the permanent set up.  I do know what the Sterling does & the inverter is pretty much always switched off. ?

I have a switchboard for all appliances so I'll just 1.) switch everything off, 2.) start the genny, 3) plug genny in and turn the switch to get the charger going. If the genny starts to protest, I'll unplug and attach the clamps to the leisure battery next to the starter.

By wires we are talking the two thin wires going down? Since the thicker cables have one going to the starter in a dodgy way.

*I think I might have a cable that can be used as an extention assuming ends match up. Worst case scenario genny fumes will be aimed downwind and there's at least two sets of doors that I can close between the genny and me. AND I'll keep the CO alarm by me. I think I'm running out of time for today's charging so won't have time to find extention.

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5 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

I think I might have a cable that can be used as an extention assuming ends match up. Worst case scenario genny fumes will be aimed downwind and there's at least two sets of doors that I can close between the genny and me. AND I'll keep the CO alarm by me. I think I'm running out of time for today's charging so won't

Ok, you appreciate the dangers, unlike many boaters :)

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4 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

By wires we are talking the two thin wires going down?

 

Yes.

 

And Alan is being rather alarmist about the CO risk. Loads of boaters run their gennies on the stern deck without killing themselves. Trouble is, three of four per decade DO kill themselves with their gennies. 

 

The important thing is to make sure you are not breathing the fumes from the genny exhaust. Thats about it really. All those who died did not realise this.  

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Lady_Why said:

The wires that go from the charger down to my batteries are similarly part of the permanent set up.

Just a thought. If the genny doth protest, switch everything off and disconnect the charger cable that connects to the starter battery. Tape over the end with insulating tape. Try again. 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Just a thought. If the genny doth protest, switch everything off and disconnect the charger cable that connects to the starter battery. Tape over the end with insulating tape. Try again. 

Curious - what does the insulating tape do?

 

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

Is the generators engine a 2 stroke or 4 stroke?

It advises 4 stroke oil, so I assume 4 stroke.

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1 minute ago, Lady_Why said:

Curious - what does the insulating tape do?

It’s over the end of the cable that you’ve disconnected. It’s to prevent that cable accidentally shorting to the hull (or anywhere else). 

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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It’s over the end of the cable that you’ve disconnected. It’s to prevent that cable accidentally shorting to the hull (or anywhere else). 

Ok, this is the dodgy black cable connected to my starter positive? Do I tape up the full metal end? Thanks for tip!

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1 minute ago, Lady_Why said:

Ok, this is the dodgy black cable connected to my starter positive? Do I tape up the full metal end? Thanks for tip!

Yes and yes :)

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And the same question about the cat....

Cats are always 4 stroking. That is their purpose. 

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