Question regarding about Survey

[PumpkinSoup]

I am a newbie at boat survey but I have a few questions about the survey.  

 

• I saw that some people use dry dock others use the crane for a survey is there a difference? 
• How regularly do you recommend doing a survey?  
• Lastly is there a website or a place where I can learn to do my own maintenance of the boat? 

 

Thank you  

 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, PumpkinSoup said:

I am a newbie at boat survey but I have a few questions about the survey.  

 

• I saw that some people use dry dock others use the crane for a survey is there a difference? 
• How regularly do you recommend doing a survey?  
• Lastly is there a website or a place where I can learn to do my own maintenance of the boat? 

 

Thank you  

 

surveys are carried out in dry docks or by being lifted or trailered out, it doesnt matter how its done its just for access to the hull. I have never had a survey in near on thirty years and eight boats, other views will be offered.

[PumpkinSoup]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

surveys are carried out in dry docks or by being lifted or trailered out, it doesnt matter how its done its just for access to the hull. I have never had a survey in near on thirty years and eight boats, other views will be offered.

Thanks for the super quick reply! If you don't carry out a survey, how do you do a check the condition of the boat of your own? 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, PumpkinSoup said:

Thanks for the super quick reply! If you don't carry out a survey, how do you do a check the condition of the boat of your own? 

If it is wet under the floorboards you investigate further. If is dry, you don't; worry about it.

 

If you are buying an old boat (older than -say- 25 years it may be a condition of insurance that you have a survey every 4 or 5 years)

 

(18 boats in the last 30+ years - last survey 30 years ago)

[frahkn]

3 minutes ago, PumpkinSoup said:

I am a newbie at boat survey but I have a few questions about the survey.  

 

• I saw that some people use dry dock others use the crane for a survey is there a difference? 
• How regularly do you recommend doing a survey?  
• Lastly is there a website or a place where I can learn to do my own maintenance of the boat? 

 

Thank you  

 

Dry dock v crane usually is a question of what is available, if the yard has a dry dock but not a crane or vice versa.

 

As you will have the boat out every 2/3 years for blacking, it can be looked at then. Insurance companies ask for regular surveys on older boats but otherwise there is no need for a more formal survey.

 

Tony Brooks (a member here) has a very useful web site. RCR and others do short, practical courses.

[Richard10002]

7 minutes ago, PumpkinSoup said:

Thanks for the super quick reply! If you don't carry out a survey, how do you do a check the condition of the boat of your own? 

He trusts his own experience and keeps his fingers crossed. He may also be wary of the advice given by surveyors given that a survey has all kinds of CYA clauses.

 

CYA = "Cover your backside"

 

I don't like dry docks because you are time limited as to how long you can stay. If you have the survey, decide to buy the boat, and decide to black the bottom plus other stuff, it's generally easier and cheaper to have it on hardstanding than in a dry dock. Having said that, you may have little choice.

 

If you are inexperienced, you should have a survey. If you don't, you risk buying a boat with lots of problems which could include a very thin hull  

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

 

CYA = "Cover your backside"

 

 

 

Thank you for the self-bowdlerisation!

Mr.Soup, there's a third way of getting your boat out of the water: some marinas, such as Fox's and Springwood Haven, have a slipway up which a tractor or a motor winch pulls the boat up a little railway on to dry land.

[David Mack]

Some drydocks, and many of the slipway and cradle systems have very little clearance between the underside of the boat and the dock bottom/ground level, making it difficult to properly inspect or clean and paint the boat's bottom.

 

One of the best facilities is at Aylesbury:

Edited November 7, 2018 by David Mack

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, PumpkinSoup said:

Thanks for the super quick reply! If you don't carry out a survey, how do you do a check the condition of the boat of your own? 

In all honesty the first boat I bought I just paid for at the side of the canal. I took a risk and got away with it as it was a solid boat and I knew it needed massive work internaly but the hull luckily was sound. Since then I have accrues many years of experience living on/working with boats and having read several surveys they are not worth the expensive paper they are written on as there are more get out closes than a pre nupt agreement.

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, frahkn said:

As you will have the boat out every 2/3 years for blacking, it can be looked at then.

^^ This!

[PumpkinSoup]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If it is wet under the floorboards you investigate further. If is dry, you don't; worry about it.

 

 If you are buying an old boat (older than -say- 25 years it may be a condition of insurance that you have a survey every 4 or 5 years)

 

(18 boats in the last 30+ years - last survey 30 years ago)

Thank you so much

2 hours ago, frahkn said:

Dry dock v crane usually is a question of what is available, if the yard has a dry dock but not a crane or vice versa.

 

As you will have the boat out every 2/3 years for blacking, it can be looked at then. Insurance companies ask for regular surveys on older boats but otherwise there is no need for a more formal survey.

 

Tony Brooks (a member here) has a very useful web site. RCR and others do short, practical courses.

IThank you so much is really useful, I will definitely check Tony out!

[PumpkinSoup]

2 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

He trusts his own experience and keeps his fingers crossed. He may also be wary of the advice given by surveyors given that a survey has all kinds of CYA clauses.

 

CYA = "Cover your backside"

 

I don't like dry docks because you are time limited as to how long you can stay. If you have the survey, decide to buy the boat, and decide to black the bottom plus other stuff, it's generally easier and cheaper to have it on hardstanding than in a dry dock. Having said that, you may have little choice.

 

If you are inexperienced, you should have a survey. If you don't, you risk buying a boat with lots of problems which could include a very thin hull  

Is there any other reason you think crane is better or dislike dry dock? Is the price different big between the two? 

[rusty69]

If the boat in question is so poor that it breaks in half on the crane, you save loads of money off the surveyor fee

[PumpkinSoup]

I just realize I don't have to reply everyone individually Thank you, everyone,  I love how fast the community is! I thought I had to wait few days for a reply but turns out it was lighting fast XD 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, PumpkinSoup said:

I just realize I don't have to reply everyone individually Thank you, everyone,  I love how fast the community is! I thought I had to wait few days for a reply but turns out it was lighting fast XD 

Thats because lots of us are sad old gits with nowt better to do ?

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Thats because lots of us are sad old gits with nowt better to do ?

Oi. Speak for yerself. Only last year I tore myself away from my computer and went outside.

Edited November 7, 2018 by rusty69
I not A

[Richard10002]

22 minutes ago, PumpkinSoup said:

Is there any other reason you think crane is better or dislike dry dock? Is the price different big between the two? 

Crane or slipway because you end up on dry land with no time pressure to get jobs finished. With a dry dock you might get a week then it fills and empties for the next boats booked. Even if you stay in, your bottom gets wet.

 

I'd guess dry land is cheaper overall. I think it's about £30 a week at Hesfords in Cheshire.

[cuthound]

52 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Oi. Speak for yerself. Only last year I tore myself away from my computer and went outside.

 

Did you take your laptop with you? ?

[Machpoint005]

In my case the choice is made for me, because there's a slipway less than 2 miles away from the home mooring.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

In my case the choice is made for me, because there's a slipway less than 2 miles away from the home mooring.

Ditto although about 8 miles.

[MtB]

8 hours ago, PumpkinSoup said:

I am a newbie at boat survey but I have a few questions about the survey.  

 

• I saw that some people use dry dock others use the crane for a survey is there a difference? 
• How regularly do you recommend doing a survey?  
• Lastly is there a website or a place where I can learn to do my own maintenance of the boat? 

 

Thank you  

 

 

 

The thing is, boats get old and sink. This takes about 50 years.

 

The English middle class personality imagines that as a boat costs a Lot Of Money, it can be surveyed like a house and the condition expressed on a piece of paper. Bless.  

 

Buy your boat, use it and enjoy it, don't worry about surveys, and when it sinks after 50 years, buy another one. How easy is that!!!!! 

[blackrose]

15 hours ago, PumpkinSoup said:

I am a newbie at boat survey but I have a few questions about the survey.  

 

• I saw that some people use dry dock others use the crane for a survey is there a difference? 
• How regularly do you recommend doing a survey?  
• Lastly is there a website or a place where I can learn to do my own maintenance of the boat? 

 

Thank you  

 

•  Yes, the difference is one's a dry dock, the other's a crane out.

•. As far as I'm concerned the only time you need to survey a boat is if you're buying one or your insurance company demands it on an older boat for a fully comprehensive policy.

•. Yes, welcome to the forum.

[Tony Brooks]

16 hours ago, PumpkinSoup said:

 I will definitely check Tony out!

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk

 

I think that on balance someone completely new to boat owning should have a survey despite the get out clauses and sometimes lack of knowledge of the surveyor. They should be competent in using instruments to test the hull soundness and that alone would tend to give peace of mind or cause you to walk away. After several years of ownership it is likely a person with a reasonably technical way of thinking would be able to assess the state of the boat by simply inspecting it thoroughly. If you do not want a survey then try to find a knowledgeable friend/acquaintance to look at the boat with you but how reliable their opinion will be is open to question but they should be able to see through a quick repaint of the interior in a light colour type of "refit".

 

What I would advise is to ignore any boat that has an engine that uses a timing belt rather than the more usual chain or gears. This boils down to mainly, but not exclusively, Lombardini and Ford XLD. I think there are a few Puegot and VW units around as well. The clue is a plastic or flimsy metal cover over the front of the engine, behind the belts held in place by clips of a very few screws. The reason is that the belts are lifed so need changing regularly and access in a narrowboat is often difficult. Also over winter the belt may rust onto the sprockets causing it to snatch when the engine is started. This, contamination by oily water, and exceeding the belt life can cause it to snap and that will cost you a great deal of money for the repairs or the new engine.

 

Never rely on a survey provided by the vendor or their broker OR use a surveyor recommended by either party - give and area and ask on here.

 

 

[PumpkinSoup]

Thank you!! everyone I now have a much better understanding of survey now Thank you so much.:)

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk

 

I think that on balance someone completely new to boat owning should have a survey despite the get out clauses and sometimes lack of knowledge of the surveyor. They should be competent in using instruments to test the hull soundness and that alone would tend to give peace of mind or cause you to walk away. After several years of ownership it is likely a person with a reasonably technical way of thinking would be able to assess the state of the boat by simply inspecting it thoroughly. If you do not want a survey then try to find a knowledgeable friend/acquaintance to look at the boat with you but how reliable their opinion will be is open to question but they should be able to see through a quick repaint of the interior in a light colour type of "refit".

 

What I would advise is to ignore any boat that has an engine that uses a timing belt rather than the more usual chain or gears. This boils down to mainly, but not exclusively, Lombardini and Ford XLD. I think there are a few Puegot and VW units around as well. The clue is a plastic or flimsy metal cover over the front of the engine, behind the belts held in place by clips of a very few screws. The reason is that the belts are lifed so need changing regularly and access in a narrowboat is often difficult. Also over winter the belt may rust onto the sprockets causing it to snatch when the engine is started. This, contamination by oily water, and exceeding the belt life can cause it to snap and that will cost you a great deal of money for the repairs or the new engine.

 

Never rely on a survey provided by the vendor or their broker OR use a surveyor recommended by either party - give and area and ask on here.

 

 

If a surveyor finds a problem, they will tell you (it is in their interests so to do unless corrupt). What they don't find they cannot tell you about although in some case they can warn about where they have not looked. So you at least get something - usually more effective when it stops you buying a bad boat and less comfort when buying a better one.