My latest acquisition

[WJM]

The Dunton Windlass - I have one and i love it! OP, Where did you get yours? I would like to get another.

 

I have been told that these are the 'Rolls Royce' of windlasses. literally. Allegedly the casting was done as a piecework job by Rolls Royce Aero Engines in Derby. 

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, WJM said:

The Dunton Windlass - I have one and i love it! OP, Where did you get yours? I would like to get another.

 

I have been told that these are the 'Rolls Royce' of windlasses. literally. Allegedly the casting was done as a piecework job by Rolls Royce Aero Engines in Derby. 

 

I think the "allegedly" is probably a bit of fantasy, as they are reported as having been designed and made in the Black Country, (at a foundry in Dudley, apparently).

 

The last HNBC Newsletter reports them as being available again

 

Double £49, Double+ £50  P&P £5.50 (1st class signed delivery).

Contact is Graham Robinson

Oh Seven Seven Five Four 948164  or Oh One Two Two Nine 861317
sparky.2005(at)tiscali.co.uk

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Erm, that's exactly Alan's point!  Forged ones want to be at 45 degrees, cast ones at 90 degrees.

 

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

Quite!

 

I'm not sure David has fully understood the pointI was trying to make.

 

I understood exactly what you were saying, and my response confirms your point.

[Ray T]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

I'd suggest that is because it is by the far most obvious way to make them, and if you were forging, putting them on at 90 degrees would make no sense.

 

However for cast ones, you can really only have a singe eye on one that is made that way.  Any attempts to put two eyes in a line that were at 45 degrees to the shaft would create an unnecessary weak point between the two eyes.

 

Which is why I suggest most cast double eyed windlasses have the eyes at 90 degrees to the shaft.

So I think it is to do with considerations of ease and soundness of construction.

I really cant see how it makes any significant difference to use, if the throw and handle length and angles are all the same.

 

First picture Stoke Bruerne Museum, second windlass from Warwickshire Fly Boat.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Ray T

[ditchcrawler]

16 hours ago, aracer said:

You're going to have to explain to me how that makes any difference when attached to something which rotates in the same plane as that 45 degree rotation.

Following this I looked at ours today and it is probably a better engineering design for the casting giving a larger web to the square as well as looking more pleasing, but I see no mechanical advantage in it

 

[David Schweizer]

29 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Following this I looked at ours today and it is probably a better engineering design for the casting giving a larger web to the square as well as looking more pleasing, but I see no mechanical advantage in it

 

 As several people have said.  Perhaps it is because most of the double eye windlasses I have had the misfortune to use have looked like this one:-

 

                                             

 

However I have had one tike this which was easier to use:-

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by David Schweizer

[TheBiscuits]

3 hours ago, Ray T said:

First picture Stoke Bruerne Museum, second windlass from Warwickshire Fly Boat.

Are they cast or forged Ray? 

 

I suppose they could also be a cast handle mated to a forged head. 

 

4 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

I understood exactly what you were saying, and my response confirms your point.

My fault I think. You did say they were not cast in the earlier post but I missed that bit. You were giving an example of exactly what we were discussing! 

[Ray T]

19 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Are they cast or forged Ray? 

 

I suppose they could also be a cast handle mated to a forged head. 

 

My fault I think. You did say they were not cast in the earlier post but I missed that bit. You were giving an example of exactly what we were discussing! 

No idea sorry. Metal work was never my forte at school. We had the choice of one or t'other and I chose woodwork.

[alan_fincher]

44 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Are they cast or forged Ray? 

 

I suppose they could also be a cast handle mated to a forged head.

 

15 minutes ago, Ray T said:

No idea sorry. Metal work was never my forte at school. We had the choice of one or t'other and I chose woodwork.

Ray's examples are certainly a bit different from the norm, and I have to say look as nice a bit of kit as you could ever expect a double eyed one to be.

I'd love to know the exact construction.

To me the heads do look perhaps cast, but if the whole thing is then the handles are certainly a lot more precisely made than on most cast windlasses.

What I think I am actually possibly seeing is weld building up the join between the two heads.  Could it actually be that these are a single eyed windlass to which a second eye as been added?  It's hard to tell, as the chrome plating has somewhat disguised the methods of construction

I'd buy these, I think, if they were still available at a sensible price!

3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 

 

However I have had one tike this which was easier to use:-

 

 

Yes, for a basic windlass those are not to bad.  Only the head is cast, so they aren't going to break.

I have at least one example, being one of the few types that if I find one laying around at locks, I do bother to put into stock.  Unfortunately the only ones I have found in a while are the "cage" type - far too horrible to possibly ever use.

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Ray's examples are certainly a bit different from the norm, and I have to say look as nice a bit of kit as you could ever expect a double eyed one to be.

I'd love to know the exact construction.

To me the heads do look perhaps cast, but if the whole thing is then the handles are certainly a lot more precisely made than on most cast windlasses.

What I think I am actually possibly seeing is weld building up the join between the two heads.  Could it actually be that these are a single eyed windlass to which a second eye as been added?  It's hard to tell, as the chrome plating has somewhat disguised the methods of construction

I'd buy these, I think, if they were still available at a sensible price!

 

 

My double headed windlass is virtually identical to Ray's, both of them having been bought from Warwickshire Flyboat Company. Mine is a little more battered than Ray's hving been used as my preferred windlass whilst cruising for quite  a few years. I have examined it for construction, and whilst it is difficult to asses because it has been ground and highly polished, I feel I can safely say it is definitely not cast. Instead it appears to be a mix of forging and welding, with the heads being constructed from box steel section for the parallel head and welded angle iron for the tapered head, the shaft and handle appear to be from one steel rod heated,  bent and welded to the lower head.   It has proved to be a very robust item, which cost, from recollection, something like £28 at the time.

Edited November 19, 2018 by David Schweizer

[Ray T]

On 15/11/2018 at 14:11, alan_fincher said:

Actually for the old size "GU South" spindles, none of which survive, I think.   It will work on the Ham Baker gear too, of course, but probably has a lot of taper, which they don't have, so not totally ideal.

Alan, managed to visit some HamBaker lock gear the other week. This is the windlass subject to post #7

As I said "It has a large eye to fit the GU candlesticks."

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

8 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Alan, managed to visit some HamBaker lock gear the other week. This is the windlass subject to post #7

As I said "It has a large eye to fit the GU candlesticks."

 

I'd need to see that viewed from the other side to say if I would really define it as "fitting them".  If it is typical of the genre, it will have a lot more taper than the spindle, and my guess is it is not a very tight fit on the side you can't see.

However I'm prepared to be proved wrong by a suitable picture though!

[zenataomm]

Looking at that photo I reckon if you wound back a tad you could slide a 1np coin in the gap.

[Graham_Robinson]

On 19/11/2018 at 12:36, WJM said:

The Dunton Windlass - I have one and i love it! OP, Where did you get yours? I would like to get another.

 

I have been told that these are the 'Rolls Royce' of windlasses. literally. Allegedly the casting was done as a piecework job by Rolls Royce Aero Engines in Derby. 

Aaah the tall tales of the Dunton windlass. I could write a book on them. This is a new one on me though so congratulations. An abridged history on them was featured in both the HNBC newsletter and in this months Towpath Talk.

Please get in touch with me and I'll gladly sort you one out.

 

On 19/11/2018 at 12:48, alan_fincher said:

 

I think the "allegedly" is probably a bit of fantasy, as they are reported as having been designed and made in the Black Country, (at a foundry in Dudley, apparently).

 

 

I have never mentioned the specific location of the foundry only that it is in the Black Country and trying not to be too pedantic they certainly weren't designed there.

The location of the foundry is a secret, even from me. Nick is keeping his cards close to his chest on that one and knowing what he has had to suffer over the past years ( being ripped off, not paid etc.) I don't blame him one bit.

[PeterCr]

On 18/11/2018 at 04:44, Mike Todd said:

see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39130530

Last season, on a nice flight the name of which I can't remember, we were talking to the volunteer lockie. There was a windlass there for sale for 5 quid, which we bought, and I asked him why he had a windlass for sale. It was one of those with the rotating handle, which my wife finds easier on her hands.

 

He said it happens all the time, boaters leave the windlass behind at the lock so he collects them and sells them and uses the money to smarten up the lock with flower plantings and so on.

 

After reading that I wonder if maybe he should be a little more careful about selling windlasses he finds at the lock.

 

And I wonder if we are accessories to theft or receivers of stolen goods having bought a "stolen" windlass ?

[Mike Todd]

15 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Last season, on a nice flight the name of which I can't remember, we were talking to the volunteer lockie. There was a windlass there for sale for 5 quid, which we bought, and I asked him why he had a windlass for sale. It was one of those with the rotating handle, which my wife finds easier on her hands.

 

He said it happens all the time, boaters leave the windlass behind at the lock so he collects them and sells them and uses the money to smarten up the lock with flower plantings and so on.

 

After reading that I wonder if maybe he should be a little more careful about selling windlasses he finds at the lock.

 

And I wonder if we are accessories to theft or receivers of stolen goods having bought a "stolen" windlass ?

A while back, I realised as I walked up to a lock that I had left my windlass at the previous lock, not too far away. I jogged back, could then!, and found a boat just about to leave in the opposite direction. I asked if they had seen said item, which had been on the balance beam. Very sheepishly the windlass was produced with a comment about wondering whose it was and what they should to about it! I thank them profusely for keeping it safe for me. ..

[blackrose]

On 16/11/2018 at 13:06, X Alan W said:

As iv'e stated before the whole concept of canal boating has changed the "oldie" boaters from back in  the day of the beginning of leisure boating were "INTO"canals & cruising now the cut is viewed in a different light an alternative housing estate & various other uses but really having little or no interest in the system I get the feeling that a good number of boat dwellers would be happier with a dry section providing they could source water /bog emptying"leccy"  Etc .It's just a "there" commodity & the history of such is largely irrelevant no help by C&rt's diverging interests+ the "enthusiasts"are now viewed much as the boating families were by sections of Joe Public back then Dinosaurs just waiting extinction real shame problem is it's finite & the constant running down i'm sure it will lead to dereliction & unlike the past I fear if it gets beyond being used & goes it will be gone forever or just be a linear housing estate

 

Moan, moan, moan....

 

As I've stated before, no particular boat owner, boat hirer or boat dweller has any more rights over how the waterways are used than anyone else just because they were there first, and one thing that we all know in life is that nothing stays the same.

 

I happen to think that in a country with a growing population and a housing crisis, people's need for shelter is just as important as others need for a hobby. It's a shame that we can't go back to the idyllic days of the past, but that's the way it is and some people need to get used to it, learn to share the waterways and stop moaning.

Edited December 29, 2018 by blackrose

[aracer]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I happen to think that in a country with a growing population and a housing crisis, people's need for shelter is just as important as others need for a hobby.

It's far more important, but that doesn't mean the limited resource of the waterways is the most appropriate way to provide that - it's an incredibly inefficient way to provide housing, it just happens that similar housing isn't sufficiently available elsewhere. Meanwhile the use of the waterways for leisure purposes is far more than just a hobby - ironically given the undoubted prevalence of mental health problems amongst those who prefer not to move, using them in the way "intended" is an excellent way of improving mental health and IMHO good mental health is just as important as people's need for shelter.

 

I should point out that I'm a newbie to narrowboating and the principal reason I got a boat is that I needed somewhere to live, but that doesn't mean I have no interest in the waterways - for me there are huge additional benefits to living on a boat (from what I can work out I go out more often than anybody else moored around here).

[X Alan W]

10 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Moan, moan, moan....

 

As I've stated before, no particular boat owner, boat hirer or boat dweller has any more rights over how the waterways are used than anyone else just because they were there first, and one thing that we all know in life is that nothing stays the same.

 

I happen to think that in a country with a growing population and a housing crisis, people's need for shelter is just as important as others need for a hobby. It's a shame that we can't go back to the idyllic days of the past, but that's the way it is and some people need to get used to it, learn to share the waterways and stop moaning.

I m sorry you see my post as a triple moan It was more a cry to try to keep a unique system going to far down hill .It is a no no for me now due to residence location, & age & i did my boating at a time/ manner for which it was designed commercial carrying, I agree the uses are ever changing but to alter use of a system to maybe in the future rule out the use it was designed for the mooring of many live aboards seems a shame I ve seen & worked on sections that went to dereliction to restore possibility of cruising I fear it ill not be so enthusiastically taken on a second/third time