Caravan parks first...marinas next??

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Tucked up safely in Saxilby now.

The Pizza place "do-liver" to boats.

And very nice they are to.

[Naughty Cal]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Pizza place "do-liver" to boats.

And very nice they are to.

Indeed they do. But we have some lovely free range pork loin chops for dinner shortly with some spinach and ricotta tortellini,  baby sweetcorn and sugar snap peas.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

But we have some lovely free range pork loin chops for dinner shortly

 

I somehow doubt that. The donor pigs may have been free range but I've never seen pork loin chops roaming the land at will.

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I somehow doubt that. The donor pigs may have been free range but I've never seen pork loin chops roaming the land at will.

 

 

We saw the pig in question roaming around the farmers woods a couple of weeks ago. It was indeed at that point free range and consisted of pork loin, pork chops, belly pork, sausages, bacon,  shoulder, fillet, cheeks, hocks and steaks.

 

They were just not in kit format yet.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

We saw the pig in question roaming around the farmers woods

How did you know it was the same Pig ?

Was it like Blackpool Rock ?

[Momac]

20 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

So with those terms and conditions provided the boat moves out of the marina occasionally and doesn't spend more than 28 consecutive days on the mooring, there would be nothing stopping someone staying on their boat on a leisure mooring?

 

If you want to live on a boat and not pay council tax you would need to move - yes . 

If you moved back to the same spot each time I think you would probably need to gather some evidence that you had moved . There could be some difficulty with achieving the 28 day rule in the depths of winter , if say the water is frozen.

 

I don't think this is about terms and conditions of a particular marina. it is about the law regarding permanence of a place of residence and the associated payment of  council tax.

 

I don't suppose you stay on your boat in the marina more than two or three nights at a time  (if that) . You probably go out of your marina more often than all the other boats at Burton  Waters  put together. Your main residence is  a house for which council tax is paid ,so you are not liable for council tax for your boat. 

[Naughty Cal]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

How did you know it was the same Pig ?

Was it like Blackpool Rock ?

He only slaughters one a week and he told us that one was next when we were looking!

 

Our Christmas turkey is also currently running around his yard. We know that one is ours as it has tag on it to distinguish it for us when we go and feed them. Ugly brute of a bird.

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

 

If you want to live on a boat and not pay council tax you would need to move - yes . 

If you moved back to the same spot each time I think you would probably need to gather some evidence that you had moved . There could be some difficulty with achieving the 28 day rule in the depths of winter , if say the water is frozen.

 

I don't think this is about terms and conditions of a particular marina. it is about the law regarding permanence of a place of residence and the associated payment of  council tax.

 

I don't suppose you stay on your boat in the marina more than two or three nights at a time  (if that) . You probably go out of your marina more often than all the other boats at Burton  Waters  put together. Your main residence is  a house for which council tax is paid ,so you are not liable for council tax for your boat. 

Read the terms again. There is nothing about moving berths involved just not racking up 28 consecutive nights onboard. 

 

Easy enough even in winter if the water freezes, which is unlikely in Kings Marina!

 

Just go and stay in a hotel for a night.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

He only slaughters one a week and he told us that one was next when we were looking!

 

Our Christmas turkey is also currently running around his yard. We know that one is ours as it has tag on it to distinguish it for us when we go and feed them. Ugly brute of a bird.

When we had the Farm - we did similar, it is amazing how many times one pig produced 5 'hams'.

We regularly 'did' Turkeys and one year decided to 'do' Ducks as well - everything went swimmingly on the Turkeys, but when we got to the ducks we had a problem.

A ducks neck is very rubbery and stretches a long, long way, anyway to cut the story short (after many non-deaths) we borrowed an electrical stunning device from the local butcher / Slaughterman.

 

This was like a pair of ear-muffs with sponge 'muffs', it was connected to a 110v transformer and the plan was that you dipped the 'muffs' into a bucket of water, put the 'muffs' over the head of the duck and pressed the power button - and ZAP.

 

However, ZAP it didn't. The Ducks just looked up and walked away.

 

We eventually sold the remaining ducks as 'live pets'.

[Naughty Cal]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When we had the Farm - we did similar, it is amazing how many times one pig produced 5 'hams'.

We regularly 'did' Turkeys and one year decided to 'do' Ducks as well - everything went swimmingly on the Turkeys, but when we got to the ducks we had a problem.

A ducks neck is very rubbery and stretches a long, long way, anyway to cut the story short (after many non-deaths) we borrowed an electrical stunning device from the local butcher / Slaughterman.

 

This was like a pair of ear-muffs with sponge 'muffs', it was connected to a 110v transformer and the plan was that you dipped the 'muffs' into a bucket of water, put the 'muffs' over the head of the duck and pressed the power button - and ZAP.

 

However, ZAP it didn't. The Ducks just looked up and walked away.

 

We eventually sold the remaining ducks as 'live pets'.

He only keeps a small amount of pigs and they are all kept in age related groups so it definitely was that pig because it  certainty wasn't there this week!

 

Sounds like you had well hard ducks

 

 

[Momac]

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Just go and stay in a hotel 

That would not do the trick. The boat has to move.

It is the permanence if the mooring or the lack if permanance  that is  significant for people who  are resident on the boat.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Easy enough even in winter if the water freezes, which is unlikely in Kings Marina!

Its not so long ago that the marina did freeze - HARD - everyone was smashing the ice around their boats to save 'crushing'. Boats with pump-outs were stuck on their moorings as the ice could not be broken. 

It was even possible to walk across it.

Lasted several weeks.

 

4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

That would not do the trick. The boat has to move.

It is the permanence if the mooring or the lack if permanance  that is  significant for people who  are resident on the boat.

 

No, it seems to be the occupation that is required.

BWML state that you (or the boat) must leave the marina once every 28 days. As I mentioned earlier, some boats nip and and moor at The Kiln one night a month, or move out and stay with a friend once a month.

Remember we are talking about leisure moorings for which the boat can stay there 365 days a year - it becomes a residential boat (mooring) if the occupants stay for 29 consecutive days.

[Momac]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Remember we are talking about leisure moorings for which the boat can stay there 365 days a year - it becomes a residential boat (mooring) if the occupants stay for 29 consecutive days.

Okay that may be so.

 

It could be more convenient to pay the council tax.  

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

He only slaughters one a week and he told us that one was next when we were looking!

 

Our Christmas turkey is also currently running around his yard. We know that one is ours as it has tag on it to distinguish it for us when we go and feed them. Ugly brute of a bird.

 

The pig would have had a tag as well

[canalworld]

45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

BWML state that you (or the boat) must leave the marina once every 28 days.

Interesting concept for the boat to leave the marina whilst you stay there - though I guess they need to cover for the every possibility?

35 minutes ago, MartynG said:

It could be more convenient to pay the council tax.  

That all depends on how convenient it is to get a residential mooring, and whether complying with the 28 day rule is actually any sort of inconvenience at all (in a way it's an interesting condition - it is inconvenient to those who just want somewhere cheap to live but aren't that interested in boating, it's not terribly inconvenient to those who need a base but like getting out).

[Momac]

3 minutes ago, canalworld said:

 it's not terribly inconvenient to those who need a base but like getting out).

Not inconvenient at all. 

 

I think this all started with someone suggesting you could live aboard full time or 11 months if the year in a non residential mooring and not move and also not pay council tax.

 

[Naughty Cal]

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

That would not do the trick. The boat has to move.

It is the permanence if the mooring or the lack if permanance  that is  significant for people who  are resident on the boat.

 

Not at all. Look at the wording. The boat does not have to move at all.

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

Okay that may be so.

 

It could be more convenient to pay the council tax.  

Not really. 

 

Not overly onerous to move or leave the boat once every 28 days. 

 

I'm pretty sure you leave your house once every 28 days.

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Not inconvenient at all. 

 

I think this all started with someone suggesting you could live aboard full time or 11 months if the year in a non residential mooring and not move and also not pay council tax.

 

No it didn't. If all started with people suggesting to look at their marinas terms and conditions. 

 

You never did say. What are they st Farndon Marina?

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

The pig would have had a tag as well

It had very distinctive markings!

[Momac]

18 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

I'm pretty sure you leave your house once every 28 days.

Yes.

But I still have to pay council tax.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

 

You never did say. What are they st Farndon Marina?

I haven't had time to find the paperwork. But this is not about marina terms it is about the law.

[Momac]

22 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

 

Not overly onerous to move or leave the boat once every 28 days. 

That will not be sufficient to avoid council tax if you do not move the boat.

[MtB]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This was like a pair of ear-muffs with sponge 'muffs', it was connected to a 110v transformer and the plan was that you dipped the 'muffs' into a bucket of water, put the 'muffs' over the head of the duck and pressed the power button - and ZAP.

 

However, ZAP it didn't. The Ducks just looked up and walked away.

 

I often wonder if someone did the same to naughty cal, with similar results....

 

[canalworld]

55 minutes ago, MartynG said:

That will not be sufficient to avoid council tax if you do not move the boat.

You'd better tell that to all the people on leisure moorings who leave the boat there for months at a time without visiting it.

 

The whole thing just isn't that simple - if you're on a leisure mooring, then I'm not sure what mechanism there is for the council to send you a CT bill, however long you're spending on the boat. As far as they're concerned you're not officially living on the boat if you're not on a residential mooring. It's all about reality rather than theory - yes if you're living on your boat full time and spending most of that in the marina you should be liable for CT. However if you're not breaking the terms of your contract with the marina (which you aren't if you pop out every 28 days from a BWML marina) then the marina will let you do what you like with your mooring.

 

Meanwhile it's worth remembering that council tax is liable on the mooring, not the boat, but only if the mooring is officially designated as being for residential use - it's just not quite the same as CT being charged on a house where it's all very simple. Oh and as I mentioned in my first comment, I'm contributing exactly the same amount towards CT now as I was when I was a lodger in a house.

[Momac]

31 minutes ago, canalworld said:

You'd better tell that to all the people on leisure moorings who leave the boat there for months at a time without visiting it.

 

Why ?

They are not living on the boat

31 minutes ago, canalworld said:

 

The whole thing just isn't that simple - if you're on a leisure mooring, then I'm not sure what mechanism there is for the council to send you a CT bill

Yes there is . The aggregate council tax may be paid via the marina and recovered from the boater. The full council tax may be paid direct to the council. The council may send the bill to the marina who may then deliver it to the boater.

Furthermore the marina is breaking the terms of their planning consent. The council will also probably serve an enforcement notice and the may then apply for planning permissions - which  can be quite expensive.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by MartynG
.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Why ?

They are not living on the boat

Yes there is . The aggregate council tax may be paid via the marina and recovered from the boater. The full council tax may be paid direct to the council. The council may send the bill to the marina who may then deliver it to the boater.

Furthermore the marina is breaking the terms of their planning consent. The council will also probably serve an enforcement notice and the may then apply for planning permissions - which  can be quite expensive.

 

 

 

 

I live on my boat on my on CRT on line mooring. No CT bill here for me! 

 

I pay CT bills on two houses I don't live in however. It's SO UNFAIR!!!!

[Momac]

24 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I live on my boat on my on CRT on line mooring. No CT bill here for me! 

Why not.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

Why not.

Lack of residential planning permission ... 

[Momac]

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Lack of residential planning permission ... 

If so someone may complain to the local authority town and country planners  if they wish.