How many Visits ?

[Alan de Enfield]

According to NBW it is now the grand total of 5 million (I think they have lost some 'noughts') but last year C&RT claimed 460,000,000

Should it be 500,000,000 ?

 

Not like NBW to understate C&RT. !!!

 

Now it's five million!

Published: Sunday, 04 November 2018

WOULD you believe that there are now five millon visits to the waterways every year?

That's what a Cart spokesman told the listeners to the BBC Countryfile program.

[Mac of Cygnet]

That would mean that only 1 in 12 people visit a waterway, once a year.  Must try harder.

[Momac]

2 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

That would mean that only 1 in 12 people visit a waterway, once a year.  Must try harder.

No............It is number of visits.

You are forgetting the people   who visit  more than once or could be more than once every day .

In any case how do they know - its a bit of a guess.

[ditchcrawler]

120 per hour every day od the week all year at Llangollen.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

In any case how do they know - its a bit of a guess.

No, its all done by telephone every 2 weeks.

 

2000 people at random are called and asked if they have visited a canal / waterway in the last 2 weeks.

They then take the number who say 'yes and extrapolate that to the whole population of the UK.

 

So - (say) 500 people say 'yes', that is 25% of the sample, this is extrapolated to 25% of the population, so the figure provided to DEFRA to prove compliance with their grant conditions, would be 15,000,000 per 2 weeks (7.5 million per week x 52 weeks = 390 million)

 

This is the questionnaire used :

 

Q1 Firstly, I am going to read out some activities that you may have taken part in recently. For each one, can you tell me whether you personally have taken part in this activity in Britain within the past two weeks? So firstly, have you…. on a stretch of inland water which is used by boats, for example a canal, river or lake.
1. Been on a boat with an engine
2. Been on a boat without an engine? Please
3. include activities such as canoeing, rowing boats and sailing boats
4. Been fishing
5. Been cycling
6. Walked a dog
7. Visited a specific attraction, heritage attraction or museum
8. Taken a walk or a ramble for leisure
9. Taken a run or jog for leisure
10. Used or walked along only in order to get somewhere else? For example, to get to work or to go shopping
11. Bought food or drink in a pub
12. Just sat or stood by the water as a break in the day to relax (always penultimate activity)
13. Used or visited for some other purpose? (SPECIFY)

Q2. [For each activity at Q1] On how many days in the past two weeks have you personally……[read out activity]….on a stretch of inland water used by boats, for example, a river, canal or lake in Britain?
WRITE IN NUMBER OF DAYS BETWEEN 1 AND 14.

Q3. [For each activity at Q1] And thinking about the last day you have……[read out activity]….which river, canal or lake did you do this on?
RECORD ALL OF THE FOLLOWING:
a) Name of Waterway (if known):
b) Nearest Town / Village:
c) Name of County:

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Allan(nb Albert)]

14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

So - (say) 500 people say 'yes', that is 25% of the sample, this is extrapolated to 25% of the population, so the figure provided to DEFRA to prove compliance with their grant conditions, would be 15,000,000 per 2 weeks (7.5 million per week x 52 weeks = 390 million)

 

 

 

Grant is not dependent upon the number of visits. However, it might figure in any renegotiation of grant as a wellness measure. More visits = more wellness.

 

From the last four annual reports average number of visits per two week period has been hovering around 4.3m - 4.4m
 

Last published figure - 12 months up to May 2019 is 4.1m

For comparison, BW expressed an intention to have 7.2m by 2012 but the highest  achieved was 4.3m (that includes Scotland)

[Tanglewood]

9 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Grant is not dependent upon the number of visits. However, it might figure in any renegotiation of grant as a wellness measure. More visits = more wellness.

 

Yes it might, but I suspect that if CRT are relying on this figure they may well be disappointed.  The World health Organisation suggest there are a lot more complex interactions between a person and their life experiences than walking along a tow-path. https://academic.oup.com/eurpub/article/25/4/731/2398958  What could be argued, perhaps, is that visiting a canal ( or a  park, or the seaside or any other leisure activity) is a measure of wellbeing, resulting from a reasonable standard of living. Wellbeing is subjective.  CRT cannot tell me what my state of wellbeing is - even though I am next to a canal every day. They cannot even tell me that this proximity contributes to it - because the level of frustration I feel when the rhetoric  from the top does not the experience on the ground certainly does not.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Last published figure - 12 months up to May 2019 is 4.1m

Crystal Ball ?

Early submission of the 2018-19 Accounts ?

 

Last published figure from the 2017-18 accounts (Published July '18) shows total 'visits' of 372 million and number of 'visitors' at 4.3 million per 2-week period.

 

Cut & Paste from the accounts :

Average visitors during a two week period 4.3m (2017: 4.3m)

Total visits 372m (2017: 396m)

 

The grant may not be conditional on these particular statistics, but it is a condition of the grant that the visit & visitor numbers are published annually.

 

The three KPI's on which the continuing Grant is assessed are :

 

Condition of 'principal assets'

Condition of Towpath

Condition of Flood Management Assets (Culverts etc)

[Allan(nb Albert)]

42 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Crystal Ball ?

Early submission of the 2018-19 Accounts ?

 

Last published figure from the 2017-18 accounts (Published July '18) shows total 'visits' of 372 million and number of 'visitors' at 4.3 million per 2-week period.

 

Cut & Paste from the accounts :

Average visitors during a two week period 4.3m (2017: 4.3m)

Total visits 372m (2017: 396m)

 

The grant may not be conditional on these particular statistics, but it is a condition of the grant that the visit & visitor numbers are published annually.

 

The three KPI's on which the continuing Grant is assessed are :

 

Condition of 'principal assets'

Condition of Towpath

Condition of Flood Management Assets (Culverts etc)

The 4.1m figure is published in bi monthly C&RT July board papers which give a rolling 12 months. 2018/19 target is 4.5m

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Allan(nb Albert)

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

The 4.1m figure is published in bi monthly C&RT July board papers which give a rolling 12 months. 2018/19 target is 4.m

 

Sorry - I am not following this.

 

2017/18 ACTUALS were 4.3 million per 2 week period.

2018/19 TARGET is 4.1 million per annum

A 'rolling 12 months' would be, for example, the period (inclusive) from 1st November 2017 to 31st October 2018, then 1st December 2017 to 31st November 2018........….etc etc

 

 

Is C&RT forecasting a drop to 1/25th of last years visitors ?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Sorry - I am not following this.

 

2017/18 ACTUALS were 4.3 million per 2 week period.

2018/19 TARGET is 4.1 million per annum

A 'rolling 12 months' would be, for example, the period (inclusive) from 1st November 2017 to 31st October 2018, then 1st December 2017 to 31st November 2018........….etc etc

 

 

Is C&RT forecasting a drop to 1/25th of last years visitors ?

2017/18 actual was 4.3.million per average two week period over the financial year. (i.e. for the 12 months April 2017 to March 2018)
2018/19 target is 4.5 million per average two week period over the financial year. (i.e. for the 12 months April 2018 to March 2019)

 

C&RT provides its board bi-monthly figures that give progress against target during the financial year. The last published figures are for the twelve months June 2017 to May  2018) which is where the 4.1m comes from.
 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

2017/18 actual was 4.3.million per average two week period over the financial year. (i.e. for the 12 months April 2017 to March 2018)
2018/19 target is 4.5 million per average two week period over the financial year. (i.e. for the 12 months April 2018 to March 2019)

 

C&RT provides its board bi-monthly figures that give progress against target during the financial year. The last published figures are for the twelve months June 2017 to May  2018) which is where the 4.1m comes from.

OK - All clear now.

 

They are 14 day averages, not rolling 12 month figures. (As suggested in post #9)

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

 

 

C&RT provides its board bi-monthly figures that give progress against target during the financial year. The last published figures are for the twelve months June 2017 to May  2018) which is where the 4.1m comes from.
 

The important thing about setting targets for funding purposes is to set them low so you exceed them.  The important thing for setting targets for employees is to set them high so you can keep their pay down.  The important thing for setting targets for the board is the size of the bonus.

[rasputin]

6 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Grant is not dependent upon the number of visits. However, it might figure in any renegotiation of grant as a wellness measure. More visits = more wellness.

 

 

If I only ever visited the canal to drink beer would this be a minus wellness figure?

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, rasputin said:

If I only ever visited the canal to drink beer would this be a minus wellness figure?

It could assist with improving the depth of the canals.

And - if 500 million people did it …………………………………………...

[cuthound]

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It could assist with improving the depth of the canals.

And - if 500 million people did it …………………………………………...

 

It would smell something awful! ?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

It would smell something awful! ?

Some already do

 

[rasputin]

my piss doesn't smell that bad after drinking the second pint of beer. I have drunk it after a few more and it just tastes like straw. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, rasputin said:

my piss doesn't smell that bad after drinking the second pint of beer. I have drunk it after a few more and it just tastes like straw. 

Why would you want to eat straw ?

[rusty69]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Why would you want to eat straw ?

Why would he smell his own piss?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Why would he smell his own piss?

He didn't just smell it :

 

3 minutes ago, rasputin said:

I have drunk it after a few more and it just tastes like straw. 

 

[rasputin]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why would you want to eat straw ?

country bumpkin. taste and smell are closely connected

Edited November 5, 2018 by rasputin

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

He didn't just smell it :

 

 

Nice!