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Trojan Lithium Batteries

Robbo

By Robbo
in Boat Equipment

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mrsmelly Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Just seen that Trojan have now joined the Lithium game.  Hopefully this should bring the prices down.

Why? Their Lead acid batteries are not cheap. They may be ok but they aint cheap.

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MtB Veteran II

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Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Why? Their Lead acid batteries are not cheap. They may be ok but they aint cheap.

 

I think this too especially as they are claiming to be that holy grail, direct drop-in replacements for LA batteries.  All bms functions and protections are concealed away from the punter except for a set of state of charge indicator LEDs on the battery.  Sounds VERY expensive indeed to me!

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Add a bit.
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mrsmelly Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And they are claiming to be direct drop-in replacements for LA batteries.  All bms functions and protections are hidden away from the punter except for  set of state of charge indicator LEDs on the battery.  Sounds VERY expensive!

I dont want to light the blue touch paper as it were but they may get a cult following which is not realy warranted such as the Smartgauge has?

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OldGoat Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
Just now, mrsmelly said:

I dont want to light the blue touch paper as it were but they may get a cult following which is not realy warranted such as the Smartgauge has?

Yes - for sure ( as the Yanks say). In my (smug *) book there is NO panacea for having an excess of theoretical battery capacity (of whatever type), so that your system has some resilience.

 

Remember the days when phone batteries were too small for anything  really useful? The got bigger in the next model - so you used it more and bought the latest version.

 

* smug 'cos I decided when building xx years ago - before Trojans were made -  that L-A were a pain so I bought 1/2 tons of Alkaline batteries from a mad professor and they're still running to date. No faffing around with equalising, no killing a set by over / under charging. Being industrial quality they just run and run - but hey, IN an Old F*rt and totally out of touch with today's folks (not) 'cos I got it right.....

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mrsmelly Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Yes - for sure ( as the Yanks say). In my (smug *) book there is NO panacea for having an excess of theoretical battery capacity (of whatever type), so that your system has some resilience.

 

Remember the days when phone batteries were too small for anything  really useful? The got bigger in the next model - so you used it more and bought the latest version.

 

* smug 'cos I decided when building xx years ago - before Trojans were made -  that L-A were a pain so I bought 1/2 tons of Alkaline batteries from a mad professor and they're still running to date. No faffing around with equalising, no killing a set by over / under charging. Being industrial quality they just run and run - but hey, IN an Old F*rt and totally out of touch with today's folks (not) 'cos I got it right.....

Hadnt ever thought of alkaline. Been around for ages, sounds good to me ?

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OldGoat Veteran II

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Posted
Posted

It's good to see a bit of jocularity (rather than some of the sour comments that often spoil a thread)

/Pedant-ON/ what folks are showing are Nickel-Cadmium not-very-wet-cells. Mine are Ni-Fe or Nickel Iron (very) wet cells /Pedant-OFF/.

 

Some years ago there was a mad professor (I call him that 'cos he had a grant from S'oton University to do some work on extracting huge amounts of power from a standard alternator by running it at 100,000 r.p.m. (!yikes!) He found a ready supply of used  NiFe batteries from telephone exchange and signalling equipment standby setups and flogged them to boaters. He lived on a concrete sailing boat somewhere in the Solent creeks.

 

I have fifty (50) of them. They are massive and each cell is quite heavy. I doubt that I could lift them up easily one at a time  - but then I shouldn't need to.

Top them up occasionally - as in every three years, as being industrial they are designed to be ignored.

 

Disadvantages -

  • cost
  • weight
  • size (per KwH)
  • higher than usual voltage needed for a full charge 
  • Large voltage swing from discharged to fully charged.
  • Potassium hydroxide is nastier to deal with than battery acid in a spill situation
  • Nobody knows anything about them   (except from peeps in the US who use them for off-grid living.

Bimble sell them.

 

Hope somebody finds something of interest in the above 

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MtB Veteran II

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Posted
Posted

Ah the dreaded NiFe batteries. I see.

 

Yes I looked into those myself a couple of years ago and discounted them for reasons I can't recall. 

 

33 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Hope somebody finds something of interest in the above

 

Always interested in anything battery. Thanks! 

 

 

 

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WotEver Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Disadvantages -

  • cost
  • weight
  • size (per KwH)
  • higher than usual voltage needed for a full charge 
  • Large voltage swing from discharged to fully charged.
  • Potassium hydroxide is nastier to deal with than battery acid in a spill situation

You missed off the one disadvantage that might* be of most interest to an off grid boater: slow charge acceptance and sluggish power delivery. 

 

* depending on the boater’s particular circumstances and pretty much irrelevant to anyone with a bank of 50!

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MtB Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Steve42 said:

Any one tried lead carbon batteries? seem to have all the advantages of lithium, but cheaper.

1 hr charge, 2500 cycles to 50% DOD etc

 

A brief goggle brings up some pretty bold claims for these:

 

"The batteries offer a high number of cycles to extend battery life to more than ten years (based on daily cycling), can be recharged in less than 1.5 hours"

 

"4,000 cycles at 60% depth of discharge"

 

"no damage from partial charging"

 

https://www.boatingbusiness.com/news101/inland-waterways/new-long-life-lead-carbon-batteries/_nocache

 

 

What's not to like, when a 100AH lead-carbon battery costs only £260?!

 

 

https://batterystore.co.uk/plh-c100-pure-lead-carbon-series-battery.html

 

 

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Naughty Cal Veteran II

Naughty Cal

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A brief goggle brings up some pretty bold claims for these:

 

"The batteries offer a high number of cycles to extend battery life to more than ten years (based on daily cycling), can be recharged in less than 1.5 hours"

 

"4,000 cycles at 60% depth of discharge"

 

"no damage from partial charging"

 

https://www.boatingbusiness.com/news101/inland-waterways/new-long-life-lead-carbon-batteries/_nocache

 

 

What's not to like, when a 100AH lead-carbon battery costs only £260?!

 

 

https://batterystore.co.uk/plh-c100-pure-lead-carbon-series-battery.html

 

 

Now they look interesting. 

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MtB Veteran II

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Posted
Posted

And at £500-ish for two, I might just try a pair out unless I can identify the drawback.

 

My Trojanoids have taken a serious turn for the worse now I've given them a drink.  Down to about 25% OF BADGE.

 

All four were SERIOUSLY low with plates showing clearly, so I topped them up to the level mark (three litres between the four of them!!!!) and this seemed to approximately halve the available capacity from 50% of badge to about 25%. Most unexpected.

 

Unless the smartgauge is playing up again :giggles:

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dmr Veteran II

dmr

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And at £500-ish for two, I might just try a pair out unless I can identify the drawback.

 

My Trojanoids have taken a serious turn for the worse now I've given them a drink.  Down to about 25% OF BADGE.

 

All four were SERIOUSLY low with plates showing clearly, so I topped them up to the level mark (three litres between the four of them!!!!) and this seemed to approximately halve the available capacity from 50% of badge to about 25%. Most unexpected.

 

Unless the smartgauge is playing up again :giggles:

 

Yes, putting water in will indeed confuse the Smartgage for a day or two, a good equalization also confuses the Smartgage for a day or two, though of course its probably that the batteries are confused and the Smartgage is just accurately measuring this confusion ?.

 

Those lead carbons do look good (in the advert!!!!) but I would want to see some independent (non marketing) info before risking any money. Are they free from Sulphation or just "marginally better" at avoiding sulphation????.  Just found a mention on another forum (a solar forum, not chunderboat) which points out that the better quality Trojans (The RE Industrial series that is not readily available here) have been using this carbon technology for years. These have a significantly better cycle life than the bog standard 105's but cost more money.

 

..............Dave

 

 

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rawsondsr Collaborator

rawsondsr

Posted
Posted

Hmm, I was planning on upgrading to a 400AH Lifepo4 bank, but those carbons come in at half the price with no apparent drawbacks - but as dmr said, I also want to see independent usage info rather than nothing bad at all advertising.

 

Has anyone used Lead Carbon?

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