River Severn locks in winter

[aracer]

I've read the notice at https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/13858/opening-times-for-the-river-severn-and-gloucester-and-sharpness-canal-2018-2019 but not entirely sure if I'm understanding correctly. If I want to go through any of the locks (I'm thinking about Bevere on Monday - I'd have liked to do it on Tuesday but it seems they're shut) I need to phone up Gloucester lock at least 24 hours in advance? Presumably there is also an issue with opening times - if I want to go through a lock on Thursday I need to phone up on Monday as they won't be open on Tuesday and Wednesday? I'm also assuming that when they say the locks are unmanned you can't just operate them yourself - this is all new to me, whilst I've been up and down the river in a kayak I've never been through a lock (you portage around them) and so far only taken my narrowboat on the stretch by Worcester.

[Sea Dog]

You've got it really. You ring, tell them when and where you'd like to transit and there'll be a lock keeper there to allow you through as arranged.  The same keeper will then meet you at the next lock, etc. It all works fine if you remember to pre arrange your transit. 

[Chewbacka]

Though it says the locks shut at 4, it means exactly that, so you need to be there at least 20 mins before to ensure passage. If going from Gloucester to Worcester against  a significant flow you may not make Diglis by closing time, so bear that in mind if travelling up on a Monday.

[Rob-M]

I'm not sure I've ever done Gloucester to Worcester and arrived at Diglis before 4pm. I'm not at the boat to check the log book but I'm sure having locked out of Gloucester at 8am when the lock opens in normally arriving in Worcester around 4.30pm. 

[Sea Dog]

Just now, Rob-M said:

I'm not sure I've ever done Gloucester to Worcester and arrived at Diglis before 4pm. I'm not at the boat to check the log book but I'm sure having locked out of Gloucester at 8am when the lock opens in normally arriving in Worcester around 4.30pm. 

 

18 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Though it says the locks shut at 4, it means exactly that, so you need to be there at least 20 mins before to ensure passage. If going from Gloucester to Worcester against  a significant flow you may not make Diglis by closing time, so bear that in mind if travelling up on a Monday.

He's not down there guys - he said he wants to do Bevere.  All of Worcester to Stourport or vice versa is an easy enough run even on a winter's day as I'm sure you'd agree. Good advice for others though.

[aracer]

54 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

 

He's not down there guys - he said he wants to do Bevere.  All of Worcester to Stourport or vice versa is an easy enough run even on a winter's day as I'm sure you'd agree. Good advice for others though.

Indeed - I'm only wanting to go through Bevere as I'm planning on doing the Droitwich ring (before that becomes impossible as the canal shuts on Monday), but it appears I have to ring up Gloucester to arrange it. Just need to make sure I allow enough time from Droitwich on the Monday - was thinking of booking the lock for 3:30

[sharpness]

6 hours ago, aracer said:

 I'm also assuming that when they say the locks are unmanned you can't just operate them yourself -

Yes, that's right.

[Captain Pegg]

3 hours ago, aracer said:

Indeed - I'm only wanting to go through Bevere as I'm planning on doing the Droitwich ring (before that becomes impossible as the canal shuts on Monday), but it appears I have to ring up Gloucester to arrange it. Just need to make sure I allow enough time from Droitwich on the Monday - was thinking of booking the lock for 3:30

You will need at least three hours to get from Netherwich Basin moorings to Bevere lock and that's if you have crew to work the locks. Single handing will be substantially longer since neither the locks themselves or the lock landings are the most convenient on the network.

 

JP

[aracer]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

You will need at least three hours to get from Netherwich Basin moorings to Bevere lock and that's if you have crew to work the locks. Single handing will be substantially longer since neither the locks themselves or the lock landings are the most convenient on the network.

 

JP

Thanks - I will be single handing, but I don't usually seem to be much slower than a well drilled crew (and as fast as an average one) and only 8 locks I think on that, so hopefully not too much slower than that. Lock landings? What are lock landings - not something familiar to me from single handing

[Captain Pegg]

46 minutes ago, aracer said:

Thanks - I will be single handing, but I don't usually seem to be much slower than a well drilled crew (and as fast as an average one) and only 8 locks I think on that, so hopefully not too much slower than that. Lock landings? What are lock landings - not something familiar to me from single handing

I am sure they are; you must have required to tie your boat to the bollards provided above or below a lock at some point. That's a lock landing. I think so far you have boated from Gayton to Worcester and down onto the Severn from what you have posted on here. GU locks depend a lot on whether you share and Lapworth and the Worcs & Birmingham locks are amongst the easiest on the system. The Droitwich is a different beast. Everything about the locks is designed by make things tricky for the single hander.

 

JP

[David Mack]

9 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I am sure they are; you must have required to tie your boat to the bollards provided above or below a lock at some point. That's a lock landing.

When I am single handing I rarely use lock landings. I take the boat into the lock mouth and step off the bow with the bow rope. It's much easier and quicker than getting into the bank, and leaves the boat better positioned for getting into the lock. Similarly on leaving a lock I leave the stern in the lock mouth to shut the gate, then step back on and away.

[Captain Pegg]

12 minutes ago, David Mack said:

When I am single handing I rarely use lock landings. I take the boat into the lock mouth and step off the bow with the bow rope. It's much easier and quicker than getting into the bank, and leaves the boat better positioned for getting into the lock. Similarly on leaving a lock I leave the stern in the lock mouth to shut the gate, then step back on and away.

I agree but I don't think it's practical - or perhaps even possible - to work the Droitwich without resorting to use of lock landings at a fair few locks. Also on a lock or flight that's new to me as a single hander I will generally stop beforehand to work out my method before commencing with any lock working. Neither do I put the bows of Vulpes right up to a lock when emptying it to go uphill but that's more a result of having a boat that is low to the water and having had a couple of nervous moments in that situation in the past.

 

JP

[aracer]

9 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I am sure they are; you must have required to tie your boat to the bollards provided above or below a lock at some point

Oh, you mean where you stop to drop crew off or wait if someone else is using the lock? ? I don't think I've ever tied off to one, I often take ropes with me when in the lock mouth going downhill but don't tie off. Admittedly I've not done many wide locks without sharing, but I've certainly done a few and can't remember it being a huge problem - though I'll bear in mind that Droitwich barge is harder than the GU, thanks for the info and I'll allow plenty of time. It's going to be a strange experience, last time I went along the barge canal was in a kayak many years ago when some of the locks were pretty derelict (and the junction canal didn't really exist).

 

Whilst I'm not all that young, I'm still very fit and agile and an expert rock climber - not about to be complacent, but clearly getting on and off the boat is a lot easier for me than for most boaters, even those 10 or 20 years younger. Hence I've mostly found single handing a lot easier than I expected. 

[Captain Pegg]

10 minutes ago, aracer said:

Oh, you mean where you stop to drop crew off or wait if someone else is using the lock? ? I don't think I've ever tied off to one, I often take ropes with me when in the lock mouth going downhill but don't tie off. Admittedly I've not done many wide locks without sharing, but I've certainly done a few and can't remember it being a huge problem - though I'll bear in mind that Droitwich barge is harder than the GU, thanks for the info and I'll allow plenty of time. It's going to be a strange experience, last time I went along the barge canal was in a kayak many years ago when some of the locks were pretty derelict (and the junction canal didn't really exist).

 

Whilst I'm not all that young, I'm still very fit and agile and an expert rock climber - not about to be complacent, but clearly getting on and off the boat is a lot easier for me than for most boaters, even those 10 or 20 years younger. Hence I've mostly found single handing a lot easier than I expected. 

It's not just the barge canal, the Junction Canal is a very strange waterway. Neither is configured for the ease of the boater, it had to be done in an affordable way and there are many undesirable features as a result.

 

JP

[Mike Todd]

18 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

It's not just the barge canal, the Junction Canal is a very strange waterway. Neither is configured for the ease of the boater, it had to be done in an affordable way and there are many undesirable features as a result.

 

JP

As an example, you'd be hard pushed not to use the lock landing when coming up Lock 7 (the first one above the Barge Lock before the motorway). The next two beyond the motorway also have similar 'design characteristics'.

[aracer]

On 04/11/2018 at 11:32, Mike Todd said:

As an example, you'd be hard pushed not to use the lock landing when coming up Lock 7 (the first one above the Barge Lock before the motorway). The next two beyond the motorway also have similar 'design characteristics'.

You'd probably have to be a rock climber  I was going down rather than up, but not sure it makes a huge difference - didn't particularly notice 7, but it struck me that I might be the only single hander not using the landings on 5 (bottom staircase) and 6 as they don't have tail steps so the only way I could see to do them without using the landing was to climb via the roof, and they're deep locks so it's a long way up. They do however both have long tails with bridges, which makes climbing out a huge amount easier (in some ways they're easier than most narrow locks as the long tail means the boat doesn't wander). The only similarly deep lock on the barge canal was 2 which also has a tail bridge and required a similar process.

 

I did use the lock landing after the barge lock as it worked a lot better than using the tail - tied the stern up with the bow pointing in the right direction to close the gates and open the swing bridge,

 

I don't tend to pay a lot of attention to lock landings. but all the ones on the Droitwich canals looked fine to me if I had wanted to use them - what is the problem with them? Similarly I didn't find the locks particularly difficult - slow maybe as the barge ones only have 2 paddles and 1-3 on the junction have faffing with side ponds, but I'm not sure that was any more awkward for single handing.

 

In fact the single most awkward feature for me by far was the M5 culvert - I'm in the process of trying to empty my water tank and riding quite high at the bow. Had to dismantle my cratch cover to fit!

 

Oh and back to the original point, I phoned up and booked Bevere for 3:30 - I'd allowed 4 hours from Droitwich and it took me less than 3 and a half so I was early, but there was already a lock keeper there who locked me straight through (and he got to home early).

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, aracer said:

You'd probably have to be a rock climber  I was going down rather than up, but not sure it makes a huge difference - didn't particularly notice 7, but it struck me that I might be the only single hander not using the landings on 5 (bottom staircase) and 6 as they don't have tail steps so the only way I could see to do them without using the landing was to climb via the roof, and they're deep locks so it's a long way up. They do however both have long tails with bridges, which makes climbing out a huge amount easier (in some ways they're easier than most narrow locks as the long tail means the boat doesn't wander). The only similarly deep lock on the barge canal was 2 which also has a tail bridge and required a similar process.

 

I did use the lock landing after the barge lock as it worked a lot better than using the tail - tied the stern up with the bow pointing in the right direction to close the gates and open the swing bridge,

 

I don't tend to pay a lot of attention to lock landings. but all the ones on the Droitwich canals looked fine to me if I had wanted to use them - what is the problem with them? Similarly I didn't find the locks particularly difficult - slow maybe as the barge ones only have 2 paddles and 1-3 on the junction have faffing with side ponds, but I'm not sure that was any more awkward for single handing.

 

In fact the single most awkward feature for me by far was the M5 culvert - I'm in the process of trying to empty my water tank and riding quite high at the bow. Had to dismantle my cratch cover to fit!

 

Oh and back to the original point, I phoned up and booked Bevere for 3:30 - I'd allowed 4 hours from Droitwich and it took me less than 3 and a half so I was early, but there was already a lock keeper there who locked me straight through (and he got to home early).

Ha, you could be right about being the only person to climb out from below locks 5,6 and 7 on the Droitwich Junction. I can't do those locks without using the landings or perhaps working ahead between 5 and 6. 

 

The barge lock in Vines Park is a faff for the single hander (if you have crew you can often open up all four gates and the bridge and cruise straight through).

 

The side ponds at Hanbury slow things down and mean you can't just drop down and open a top paddle to start filling the lock before opening the bottom paddles on the lock above. That's something I usually do when single handing in flights as I don't think single handing is an excuse for poor practice.

 

There are also a couple of locks on the barge canal with tail bridges that I need the landings for as there isn't a towpath through the bridge hole which normally makes tail bridges a helpful feature. The landings are OK in themselves but some are a bit remote from the locks and the sides can be very shallow which makes it difficult to get to the side in some boats. There's one on the barge canal (either 3 or 4) where it's very shallow on the inside between the lock landing and the lock. It just all slows things down for the average boater and means there is more to do rather than being necessarily more difficult.

 

As for the M5 tunnel that's never been a problem for me at all. Water levels are low at the moment too. The novel features of the Droitwich wear a bit thin when you cruise it regularly and just want to get home after a long day although Hanbury locks are a gem in other respects.

 

JP

[aracer]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

The barge lock in Vines Park is a faff for the single hander (if you have crew you can often open up all four gates and the bridge and cruise straight through).

Can you? It seemed that I needed to open a paddle to get the top gates open at which point the bottom gates closed solid - no obvious difference in levels but there was obviously some. That (and the other swing bridges) would certainly have been a lot quicker with crew.

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

The side ponds at Hanbury slow things down and mean you can't just drop down and open a top paddle to start filling the lock before opening the bottom paddles on the lock above. That's something I usually do when single handing in flights as I don't think single handing is an excuse for poor practice.

Fair enough - but surely the side ponds mean there's a lot less need (no need?) for that as there's less water flowing out when you open the paddles?

 

I'll also plead guilty to not doing that - though what I do normally do is head down to set the next lock whilst the previous one is emptying, so there's a significant amount of time with all the paddles open (and I didn't manage that on the Hanbury flight, though I did manage to fill the last lock from the side pond whilst working the previous one).

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

There are also a couple of locks on the barge canal with tail bridges that I need the landings for as there isn't a towpath through the bridge hole which normally makes tail bridges a helpful feature. The landings are OK in themselves but some are a bit remote from the locks

Yes that makes sense, there were certainly a couple where keeping the boat in the tail was tricky due to the bridges (and in one case a sidestream at the bottom in just the wrong direction) had to do a bit of work with the centre rope. I did notice the remoteness of some (on the ones where using the tail is tricky!) which doubtless slow things down and clearly I couldn't tell how much depth there was!

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

As for the M5 tunnel that's never been a problem for me at all. Water levels are low at the moment too. The novel features of the Droitwich wear a bit thin when you cruise it regularly and just want to get home after a long day although Hanbury locks are a gem in other respects.

As I said, I'm riding really bow high - with even a half full water tank it wouldn't have been an issue (my pump is now carrying on a bit after using a tap, I think I've nearly made it) - and I did note that there could hardly be more space than there was today! It is a lovely canal and I'll certainly be back (more than once), but I do understand how it could be a pain if you do it all the time. The bits of wood on the lower gates of Hanbury did mystify me when I first saw them!

[Mike Todd]

11 hours ago, aracer said:

Can you? It seemed that I needed to open a paddle to get the top gates open at which point the bottom gates closed solid - no obvious difference in levels but there was obviously some. That (and the other swing bridges) would certainly have been a lot quicker with crew.

Fair enough - but surely the side ponds mean there's a lot less need (no need?) for that as there's less water flowing out when you open the paddles?

 

I'll also plead guilty to not doing that - though what I do normally do is head down to set the next lock whilst the previous one is emptying, so there's a significant amount of time with all the paddles open (and I didn't manage that on the Hanbury flight, though I did manage to fill the last lock from the side pond whilst working the previous one).

Yes that makes sense, there were certainly a couple where keeping the boat in the tail was tricky due to the bridges (and in one case a sidestream at the bottom in just the wrong direction) had to do a bit of work with the centre rope. I did notice the remoteness of some (on the ones where using the tail is tricky!) which doubtless slow things down and clearly I couldn't tell how much depth there was!

As I said, I'm riding really bow high - with even a half full water tank it wouldn't have been an issue (my pump is now carrying on a bit after using a tap, I think I've nearly made it) - and I did note that there could hardly be more space than there was today! It is a lovely canal and I'll certainly be back (more than once), but I do understand how it could be a pain if you do it all the time. The bits of wood on the lower gates of Hanbury did mystify me when I first saw them!

The Barge Lock depends on the river level. Sometimes you need to operate as a normal lock but at others it levels out - as a couple of weeks back when we came up. (But the gates were shut so only saved on the operation of paddles etc - still have to shift the bridge)

[Captain Pegg]

I went through the barge lock in Droitwich yesterday. Water levels are very low in the local rivers currently. Easy to open all four gates. Not to be advised if single handed; you will get stranded. 

 

In response to the above post the reason for the gates being kept closed rather than being left open is to separate the salt water in the river from the fresh(er) water in the canal.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Captain Pegg

[David Mack]

 

44 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

In response to the above post the reason for the gates being kept closed rather than being left open is to separate the salt water in the river from the fresh(er) water in the canal.

 

Back in the early 80s I was on a Workcamp at Droitwich. At that time the channel between the railway bridge and the Barge Lock was yet to be re-excavated. There was an old concrete lined brine tank on the canal line just upstream of where Netherwich Basin is now.  Someone decided to inspect it, for which it needed to be pumped out (into the river). 2 or 3 hours later a bunch of water inspectors appeared, looking for the source of the salt water, which had been detected at a treatment works intake some miles down the Severn. We got a severe ticking off!

Edited November 18, 2018 by David Mack