How long should your anchor chain be?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

And  did your your yacht just happen to have 50m chain and a windlass. ?

 

5:1 is not an unusual recommendation.

[LadyG]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

5:1 is not an unusual recommendation.

No its not,  but anchoring is not  an exact science, there's a bit more to it than that, eg 50m of chain is a lot and 10m of depth is well, rather more than one might want. If it gets really windy you might need 70m chain in 10m of water,  it is often best to have a bit less water under the keel. 

Anyway, when I eventually get my NB, I'll be getting a 11.4kg Mantus, 7 to10m of 10mm chain and 33m of 18mm anchorplait if there is any question of boating in adverse conditions.

Edited November 4, 2018 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No its not,  but anchoring is not  an exact science, there's a bit more to it than that, eg 50m of chain is a lot and 10m of depth is well, rather more than one might want. If it gets really windy you might need 70m chain in 10m of water,  it is often best to have a bit less water under the keel. 

Anyway, when I eventually get my NB, I'll be getting a 11.4kg Mantus, 7 to10m of 10mm chain and 33m of 18mm anchorplait if there is any question of boating in adverse conditions.

Here is a pic of my 30kg Mantus - (you should be OK for delivery as the UK agent is in Orkney)

 

It was a 'toss up' between Mantus & Fortress very dissimilar anchors but both 'record breaking' holding power.

 

 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Here is a pic of my 30kg Mantus - (you should be OK for delivery as the UK agent is in Orkney)

 

It was a 'toss up' between Mantus & Fortress very dissimilar anchors but both 'record breaking' holding power.

 

 

Does it still work when in the box?

 

I recognise that second pic.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

I recognise that second pic.

You should - you were 'canoodling' at the time.

 

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Does it still work when in the box?

Unfortunately not - we had to take it out, assemble it, and attach it to 100 metres of 10mm chain.

 

The 1st time we used it, it 'set' so well , and with a bit of wind and tide running it wrenched the windlass off its mountings.

It was a real back-ache hand balling 200kg of chain and a 30 kg anchor back on board. (Fortunately the bitter-end was attached)

The anchoring bridle is now 'uprated' and its been fine since.

 

Its a 'heck' of an anchor.

[rusty69]

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 1st time we used it, it 'set' so well , and with a bit of wind and tide running it wrenched the windlass off its mountings.

It was a real back-ache hand balling 200kg of chain and a 30 kg anchor back on board. (Fortunately the bitter-end was attached)

The anchoring bridle is now 'uprated' and its been fine since.

 

Its a 'heck' of an anchor.

Glad we only lost a 50 quid CQR. I wouldn't fancy losing one of them. Still, I should have checked the shackle before c̶h̶u̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶b̶o̶a̶r̶d̶ strategically setting it I spose.

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Glad we only lost a 50 quid CQR. I wouldn't fancy losing one of them. Still, I should have checked the shackle before c̶h̶u̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶b̶o̶a̶r̶d̶ strategically setting it I spose.

A friend of ours came with us on a trip to Hull with his new to him boat. We got to Trent End and we set our anchor and watched as said friend gracefully winched all of his chain and anchor overboard never to be seen again.

 

It had not occurred to him he might need to check it was attached to the boat!

 

Luckily for him our anchor was fine holding the two boats when he moored alongside. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Naughty Cal

[Momac]

35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It was a real back-ache hand balling 200kg of chain and a 30 kg anchor back on board. (Fortunately the bitter-end was attached)

 

Quite an achievement. I am surprised that was possible . 

 

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Quite an achievement. I am surprised that was possible . 

 

I doubt it was 230Kg all at once, depends how deep the water was i spose

[ditchcrawler]

I don't think there is much science, expertise, evidence or experience of anchoring on flowing rivers with canal boats, where as there is loads for coastal work.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Quite an achievement. I am surprised that was possible . 

 

We were in about 8 metres of water (off Spurn Point), we motored slowly forward and so were only lifting about 8x 2kgs directly, until we got to the 'end' and then had to lift both the chain and the 30kg anchor. Kneeling and leaning over the bow certainly 'pulled' on the back muscles - one 'pulling' and another person taking the loose chain and dropping it into the locker.

Then it was back into Hull and had a new stainless steel windlass base plate manufactured (the original was some sort of cast alloy)

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We were in about 8 metres of water (off Spurn Point), we motored slowly forward and so were only lifting about 8x 2kgs directly, until we got to the 'end' and then had to lift both the chain and the 30kg anchor. Kneeling and leaning over the bow certainly 'pulled' on the back muscles - one 'pulling' and another person taking the loose chain and dropping it into the locker.

Then it was back into Hull and had a new stainless steel windlass base plate manufactured (the original was some sort of cast alloy)

The substantial looking electric windlass on the Bavaria 41 we chartered occasionally strained to lift the anchor off the bottom  . Part of the problem was in some locations the Ronca anchor came up with a large lump of mud which must have doubled its weight.  On the  very pointy end of a mono hull yacht I am not sure what we could have done  if the winch had failed in the way you describe. (But being on charter we would have phoned the charter company for help !)

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

31 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The substantial looking electric windlass on the Bavaria 41 we chartered occasionally strained to lift the anchor off the bottom  . Part of the problem was in some locations the Ronca anchor came up with a large lump of mud which must have doubled its weight.  On the  very pointy end of a mono hull yacht I am not sure what we could have done  if the winch had failed in the way you describe. (But being on charter we would have phoned the charter company for help !)

 

 

The winch will strain if you don't help it along by driving the boat gently towards the chain to take the strain off of it!

[Momac]

5 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

The winch will strain if you don't help it along by driving the boat gently towards the chain to take the strain off of it!

Yes. We did that .

It was the releasing/ lifting of the anchor off the bottom and raising the anchor up through the water  - especially with mud trapped on the anchor  - that seemed the hardest work for the winch.

 

 

[howardang]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Yes. We did that .

It was the releasing/ lifting of the anchor off the bottom and raising the anchor up through the water  - especially with mud trapped on the anchor  - that seemed the hardest work for the winch.

 

 

Next time if necessary, heave in until the chain is taught. Then make it fast and go ahead on the engine over the chain which might break it out. If it doesn't,  once the chain is past the vertical, motor in a reasonably large circle one or more times which should do the trick. If you have no engine, you can do the same under sail.

 

Howard

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Here is a pic of my 30kg Mantus - (you should be OK for delivery as the UK agent is in Orkney)

 

It was a 'toss up' between Mantus & Fortress very dissimilar anchors but both 'record breaking' holding power.

 

 

I had to weigh up [!]  the practicality of handling the weight of chain plus anchor and the cost.  The 11.4 Mantus won. Most importantly it has a good record of holding first time, which essential in an emergency scenario. They can be stowed easily [as shown]. Jimmy Green Marine sells them, and has chain ends at a good price.

Edited November 4, 2018 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Jimmy Green Marine sells them

I know, but Jimmy Green is £750 + delivery, I got mine direct from the UK Agent/Importer* at £600 inc. shipping.

The swivel chain connector is about £70.

 

*(The Orkneys just seems such a strange place to have a UK agent).

[LadyG]

On 01/11/2018 at 17:47, Iain_S said:

Interesting that the recommendation in the MAIB report is 6 to 10 times water depth. Bearing in mind that that is all chain, the 3 to 5 times depth usually stated seems on the optimistic side!

The conditions were such that no self respecting NB/WB or leisure boater would be dropping their hook in that place. The main point was that there was only one anchor available, and that the master had not taken the precaution of ensuring engines were ready to fire up immediately.  There is always a risk any anchor will not hold, the longer the chain, the lesser the risk..

[X Alan W]

Or as the Skipper of a "Dale H" barge I worked on as engineer used to say"Long enough to reach the bottom & a bit to spare

[Humblespud]

Hello. All very interesting. We bought our 40ft NB complete with a four prong foldy anchor and a bunch of chain. Not really knowing much about sailoring and stuff I tied the chain to a longer length of climbing rope with a loop on the end, just in case. For the first three years it wasn't used, then this year it's been handy to have on two occasions. First time was on the River Wissey, going past the sugar beet factory where there is a large fishing  lake with 'no mooring' signs all about. So by dropping the anchor, we were able to have a picnic in the middle. I'm not sure if that a bad/naughty thing to do or if it was that an ok thing to do.  On the second occasion we were coming downstream  from Bedford and were held up temporarily by some bridge erecting works. There was nothing on either bank to moor against and we were told it would be twenty or thirty minutes before we could go through. So a quick donut and drop anchor it was. I like my little anchor, wouldn't want to have to use it for anything serious though...

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Humblespud said:

We bought our 40ft NB complete with a four prong foldy anchor and a bunch of chain.

Is this what you have ?

 

 

The 4-prong 'foldy' anchor is fine for tea-break anchoring but IT WILL NOT hold your boat on a river in an emergency.

 

I have a heap of them acquired over the years when I have replaced the with real anchors.

 

Please do not rely on it for proper river boating.

[Humblespud]

Yes that's the one. I wouldn't rely on it or me for anything. 

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is this what you have ?

 

 

The 4-prong 'foldy' anchor is fine for tea-break anchoring but IT WILL NOT hold your boat on a river in an emergency.

 

I have a heap of them acquired over the years when I have replaced the with real anchors.

 

Please do not rely on it for proper river boating.

Had they all failed then

[Alan de Enfield]

42 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Had they all failed then

I have a 15kg one currently in '"The Shed" - I tried it behind our 3.3mt Rib (about 50kg) with a 9hp O/B engine - it would not hold it with the engine in gear and tick-over revs.

 

They are not really anchors, they are just "T-Break Hooks"

[Scholar Gypsy]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is this what you have ?

 

 

The 4-prong 'foldy' anchor is fine for tea-break anchoring but IT WILL NOT hold your boat on a river in an emergency.

 

I have a heap of them acquired over the years when I have replaced the with real anchors.

 

Please do not rely on it for proper river boating.

the last time I used mine (it's not our proper anchor) it was as a grappling iron to deal with something (a lump of stone?) on the bottom cill of a lock on the BCN....