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Alpha Pro Wiring


DasDsm

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Hi all,

 

I'm planning to fit a Lifepo4 system and need to control my alternator better, the rest of the system is Mastervolt so I'm planning to fit one of their Alpha Pro III external regulators and this is where I've become a bit flumuxed. 

 

We have a standard 175amp Iskra IA1196 domestic alternator on our Beta 43. It doesn't seem to have any terminals for field control so does this mean taking it apart to rewire to allow the connection to the Alpha Pro? If it does, are there any instructions anywhere or someone who could do it for me. 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Duncan

 

 

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48 minutes ago, DasDsm said:

Hi all,

 

I'm planning to fit a Lifepo4 system and need to control my alternator better, the rest of the system is Mastervolt so I'm planning to fit one of their Alpha Pro III external regulators and this is where I've become a bit flumuxed. 

 

We have a standard 175amp Iskra IA1196 domestic alternator on our Beta 43. It doesn't seem to have any terminals for field control so does this mean taking it apart to rewire to allow the connection to the Alpha Pro? If it does, are there any instructions anywhere or someone who could do it for me. 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Duncan

 

 

Without specialist Alpha Pro experience.

 

Yes, at least partially. You will need to get to one of the brush wires and which one depends upon if the present regulator is in the pos. or neg. side of the field. The Alpha Pro might need connection to both brush holders and possibly the warning lamp circuit a swell. if it is to totally take over from the present regulator. However I am sure Mastervolt will supply full information.

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 A fairly simple job. You will need to remove the black plastic cover off the back and identify and remove the regulator. This is it.

image.jpeg.ce28b72bd5199371548d1b97335bd3c6.jpeg

You will see the small ring connection at top right, you will have had to have removed it anyway. I am pretty sure that connects to the top brush in the picture, a visual inspection should confirm that. Presuming I'm right about that you need to solder a wire to the other brush for your external regulator. Normally I would offer to just get another reg and send it to you modified but this is a particularly expensive one that would cost me about £30 as opposed to the usual £2 or £3 ish. Come back to us if you encounter any problems.

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41 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

 A fairly simple job. You will need to remove the black plastic cover off the back and identify and remove the regulator. This is it.

image.jpeg.ce28b72bd5199371548d1b97335bd3c6.jpeg

You will see the small ring connection at top right, you will have had to have removed it anyway. I am pretty sure that connects to the top brush in the picture, a visual inspection should confirm that. Presuming I'm right about that you need to solder a wire to the other brush for your external regulator. Normally I would offer to just get another reg and send it to you modified but this is a particularly expensive one that would cost me about £30 as opposed to the usual £2 or £3 ish. Come back to us if you encounter any problems.

Would the OP also need to switch the alternator OFF when his batteries are full. Isn't that what the battery management does.

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Would the OP also need to switch the alternator OFF when his batteries are full. Isn't that what the battery management does.

That is why I thought the Alpha Pro might totally replace the existing regulator rather than just parallel it.

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28 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That is why I thought the Alpha Pro might totally replace the existing regulator rather than just parallel it.

This is new information to me ?. I wonder why they should want to do that. I shall have a look see if I can access a diagram. Shutting down the internal reg can be easily achieved by cutting the negative bar (not visible in the picture, other side) with a saw cut.

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47 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

This is new information to me ?. I wonder why they should want to do that. I shall have a look see if I can access a diagram. Shutting down the internal reg can be easily achieved by cutting the negative bar (not visible in the picture, other side) with a saw cut.

Its to do with charging LIFEPO4 lithium batteries, not lead acid and apparently they are damaged if left on any from of charge once they are full or some say over 80% full. I know nothing about these batteries but there are some threads about them here.

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28 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Its to do with charging LIFEPO4 lithium batteries, not lead acid and apparently they are damaged if left on any from of charge once they are full or some say over 80% full. I know nothing about these batteries but there are some threads about them here.

That is what I have read, some people have the starter of bowthruster  battery on a split charge relay so there is something left on the alternator when the Lithiums disconnect

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Thanks all.

 

The thought is that when charging Lifepo4 I can stop the charge from the alternator, by the Alpha Pro controlling the field, when the Mastervolt Mastershunt detects a defined voltage or SOC level so not to over charge them. The alternator would then kick in again once the battery voltage has dropped or SOC is lower. 

 

The Alpha Pro would also monitor the temperature of the alternator and throttle it back it is starts to get too hot. 

 

So I am guessing that I need the Alpha Pro to control the alternator and the field. 

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Any alternator regulator worth the name controls the alternator by altering the average field current so it does one by controlling the other.

 

OK, I have looked up the  diagrams and it certainly looks as if the Alpha Pro needs connecting in place of the existing regulator. This is as I expected if it is to be able to shut the alternator down. Unfortunate Mastervolt do not seem to have considered that anyone would want to use the regulator with anything other than a Mastervolt supplied alternator or a Bosch one. No diagrams for Lucas or  Iskara as far as I can see although the Mastervolt ones are probably just re-branded.

 

I am not wading through all the instructions so just make sure it is capable of totally shutting the field current down. If it will then it should do what you want.

 

Remember that in theory alternators should be incapable of burning themselves out because they self regulate for maximum current - with or without an external regulator. But poor design, poor installation, or forcing too high a charge at a low speed maty compromise this. In your case I think alternator temperature compensation is probably worth having.

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I guess the other (more expensive) option would be to replace the alternator all together with a Bosch compatible one which the Alpha Pro has the connection cables.  I see that there is a brand called Bosch Marine and they seem to do a 120amp version which I read is a direct swap for the standard Beta 43 domestic alternator although I can't find any specs for the Bosch Marine ones.

 

So any advice on comparable alternators would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

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Luckily some further digging in the internet has found someone who has changed the same type alternator from internal to external regulation. 

 

http://bennersadrift.blogspot.com/2011/04/modding-iskra-100-amp-alternator.html?m=1

 

So I just need to find the replacement dumb brush holder so if Sir Nibble has the part number I will be very greatfull. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Back to stage 1!

 

After much looking I found the part which allow the regulator to be changed to allow external regulation but now find that its been discontinued and this has been confirmed by Mahle...

 

So options are to see if someone with expertise can modify the internal regulation of the alternator to allow the connection of the Alpha Pro external regulator or look for a whole new alternator which is compatible.

 

 Any advice?

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  • 3 years later...
On 15/11/2018 at 11:46, DasDsm said:

Back to stage 1!

 

After much looking I found the part which allow the regulator to be changed to allow external regulation but now find that its been discontinued and this has been confirmed by Mahle...

 

So options are to see if someone with expertise can modify the internal regulation of the alternator to allow the connection of the Alpha Pro external regulator or look for a whole new alternator which is compatible.

 

 Any advice?

 

When I talked to Beta last year they could supply a Beta 43 fitted with the Iskra alternators and a brush box to allow external regulation, so they must have a way of doing this -- have you tried asking them?

 

They're usually helpful if it's for one of their engines...

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2 hours ago, CanalRetentive said:

Did you manage to do it in the end? I'm looking to fit a mastervolt alpha pro to an iskra alternator.

@nicknorman has fitted his own alt controller and doctored the regulator for an Iskra 175, some details can be found here somewhere

 

and Ed Shiers of https://fourcountiesmarineservices.com/  fits the Alpha Pro

 

Let us know how you get on

Edited by redwing
change regulator to controller
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7 hours ago, CanalRetentive said:

Did you manage to do it in the end? I'm looking to fit a mastervolt alpha pro to an iskra alternator.

It’s fairly straightforward. You first isolate the alternator from the batteries as a precaution! You remove the plastic cover from the back of the alternator. Then see the diagram posted by Sir N at the beginning of this thread - 3 screws to be undone to remove the combined brush and regulator unit. Note that there is a small brass tube under the small screw that makes an electrical connection. You don’t need this, but it would be best to keep it in case you ever want to revert to standard. That allows the brush/ regulator unit to be lifted off.
 

What I did was to get a spare brush/regulator unit from eBay (under £20 IIRC) which I modified, keeping the original in case I ever needed to revert to standard. So far after 2 years I haven’t!

 

You can cut the wires between the regulator and the brush unit, just use a meter to work out what is connected to which brush. I then connected one brush to ground and the other to the remote alternator regulator wire - mine is high side regulated. I seem to recall that the Alpha Pro can be configured for high side or low side but you should check.

 

Put it all back together and Bob was my uncle.

 

Pretty sure this was what I bought from eBay but don’t shoot me if it’s wrong!

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171489130869

 

Edited by nicknorman
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15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

It’s fairly straightforward. You first isolate the alternator from the batteries as a precaution! You remove the plastic cover from the back of the alternator. Then see the diagram posted by Sir N at the beginning of this thread - 3 screws to be undone to remove the combined brush and regulator unit. Note that there is a small brass tube under the small screw that makes an electrical connection. You don’t need this, but it would be best to keep it in case you ever want to revert to standard. That allows the brush/ regulator unit to be lifted off.
 

What I did was to get a spare brush/regulator unit from eBay (under £20 IIRC) which I modified, keeping the original in case I ever needed to revert to standard. So far after 2 years I haven’t!

 

You can cut the wires between the regulator and the brush unit, just use a meter to work out what is connected to which brush. I then connected one brush to ground and the other to the remote alternator regulator wire - mine is high side regulated. I seem to recall that the Alpha Pro can be configured for high side or low side but you should check.

 

Put it all back together and Bob was my uncle.

 

Pretty sure this was what I bought from eBay but don’t shoot me if it’s wrong!

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171489130869

 


That's great. Thanks!

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5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I had a quick look at the Pro Alpha manual, looks like it is low side regulation only so you’d need to connect one brush to battery + (via a fuse), not ground.

 

Thanks, I plan to order it and get it fitted within the next month or two. Then once its in and working with the existing batteries I'll started looking at the BMS/lithium side of things. 

 

Have bookmarked this page and will revisit when I take it on 👍

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