Gas problem

[Johny London]

Last nite I noticed my roast dinner was taking a long time. Then I noticed a low flame on a hob, which eventually "ran out" (along with the oven) and of course the ignition was clicking. Well it sounded like the bottle was empty only I had not changed it that long ago. Upon investigation, there was plenty gas in the bottle (as in, turning on the valve with nothing connected it came whooshing out) so I refitted the regulator and tried it again. All was back to normal. I wonder if this is the first sign of the regulator packing up, or possibly indicative of a faulty valve on the bottle, or an obstruction or what. If anyone else has had similar? Of course it was a very cold nite.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Johny London said:

Last nite I noticed my roast dinner was taking a long time. Then I noticed a low flame on a hob, which eventually "ran out" (along with the oven) and of course the ignition was clicking. Well it sounded like the bottle was empty only I had not changed it that long ago. Upon investigation, there was plenty gas in the bottle (as in, turning on the valve with nothing connected it came whooshing out) so I refitted the regulator and tried it again. All was back to normal. I wonder if this is the first sign of the regulator packing up, or possibly indicative of a faulty valve on the bottle, or an obstruction or what. If anyone else has had similar? Of course it was a very cold nite.

 

Blue or red bottles?

 

 

[Johny London]

Red.

[nicknorman]

I had a similar problem in my caravan over the weekend. Pretty sure it is the “gloop” that tends to collect in the bottom of cylinders, finding its way into the pipework. I took the long flexy hose off and whirled it around hopefully to expel any gloop, refitted and it’s been fine since, however if the gloop made it beyond the regulator the problem is going to recur.

[alan_fincher]

Is it by any chance the dreaded black "gunge" starting to find it's way into the regulator, the boat pipework or both?

 

Out of interest is the regulator in a vertical or horizontal plane, and which way up is it?  Where is the vent hole?

I recall reading one piece f advice, (from Calor, I think), that aid no part of the regulator should be lower than the take off point on the cylinders.  Many mounted in gas lockers on narrow boats break that guideline, of course.

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I had a similar problem in my caravan over the weekend. Pretty sure it is the “gloop” that tends to collect in the bottom of cylinders, finding its way into the pipework. I took the long flexy hose off and whirled it around hopefully to expel any gloop, refitted and it’s been fine since, however if the gloop made it beyond the regulator the problem is going to recur.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, exactly this!

Edited October 29, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Johny London]

Oh, thanks. I've never heard of gloop - black or otherwise, at least not where the gas is concerned, so that's a new one on me. Assumed it was pretty clean stuff - is this muck/corrosion coming off the inside of the cyclinder?  What would I do if it turns out to have gotten into the pipework? I would have thought Calor would have made sure the cylinders were clean and useable, the price they charge!

Thanks all, mystery solved, I'll keep my eye on it for now.

[Jess--]

it's not the gas or anything wrong with the bottles, it's the liquid they add to to the gas to make it stink

[Sapphal]

Yes it's the added scent. The scent seems to be really strong as you get to the bottom of the bottle. 

[cuthound]

Oh no, first diesel bug and now gas bug ?

[system 4-50]

Gloop-whirling is a longstanding canal boating tradition.  (You must stand on a boat longer than 60ft.) Best done with a bagpipe accompaniment.

[Johny London]

Just to add - I had another look in the day light and all seems ok. The nozzle of the regulator that joins onto the bottle has a little plastic filter to stop anything large ish getting past, and this must have been where the blockage was, as of course simply undoing it and giving the gas a quick blast seemed to fix things, wherever the dirt was.

Well, fingers crossed...

[Sea Dog]

6 hours ago, Johny London said:

...and of course the ignition was clicking. 

Glad that's cleared up for you.  Now it is, I don't understand the bit I've quoted above. Your hob ignition clicks when the gas runs out?

[bizzard]

And if you've lost yer sense of smell beware.

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Glad that's cleared up for you.  Now it is, I don't understand the bit I've quoted above. Your hob ignition clicks when the gas runs out?

Our Neff hob at home does that. If the flame goes out the auto-ignition ticks away for a while trying to re-light it before giving up and flashing a little ‘fault’ led. 

[Sea Dog]

9 hours ago, WotEver said:

Our Neff hob at home does that. If the flame goes out the auto-ignition ticks away for a while trying to re-light it before giving up and flashing a little ‘fault’ led. 

Ooh, intersecting. I wonder if the OP (thanks Alan) has a domestic cooker then?  I'd rather like a good one of those instead of the boat sized one, but finding an appropriate size is a struggle and then the 230v ignition kills the idea.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Sea Dog
Changed UK back to OP!

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I wonder if the UK has a domestic cooker then?

No, I reckon to feed 60 million they'd need a commercial one at the very least.

[Sea Dog]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

No, I reckon to feed 60 million they'd need a commercial one at the very least.

That said OP when I typed it, honest!

 

[Johny London]

My problem is back. After running the oven for 40 mins the gas got weak and cut out. I figured to look at it this morning but low and behold it is working again. Could it be the regulator after all?

 

Yes my oven and hob are domestic ones - I thought it was mandatory anyway to have flame out protection on boats so assume this happens on boaty ovens too? Unless they are very old?

If anyone is interested, and I have posted the details before in other threads, I have a Belling oven with separate grill. It's 600mm wide. It's the one that doesn't have a digital display - it's very hard to get one without that (and that is suitable for lpg) but I didn't want to be resetting the clock every time I put the power on. And who ever uses their oven timer anyway?

The hob is this one : https://www.jsi-uk.com/jsi-uk-hgg4110-03a-30cm-glass-gas-front-control-domino-hob-natural-gas-and-lpg I wanted one that wasn't as deep as a full size domestic, because it would have put the rear burners perilously close to the wall, combustible or not. So I have this one mounted sideways, which doesn't cause any problems either with connections or operating the controls.

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Johny London

[Momac]

I had a problem years ago with a domestic gas hob. Grease at a new pipe joint was the problem.

I also had a bottle gas issue on a boat. The new gas would not stay lit. I took the bottle out and gave it a good shake to stir up the liquid gas. After that it worked perfectly. 

If none of the above apply perhaps try a different gas bottle.

Also try a new orange hose? 

Edited October 30, 2018 by MartynG
Typo

[Speedwell]

17 hours ago, Johny London said:

My problem is back. After running the oven for 40 mins the gas got weak and cut out. I figured to look at it this morning but low and behold it is working again. Could it be the regulator after all?

 

 

 

You said it was a very cold night.  As the liquid propane boils off, for you to use as gas, it cools the rest of the bottle.  It could be that you are cooling the bottle so low that there is insufficient gas pressure to drive your stove.  Probably the top of the liquid cools most, so shaking the bottle will increase the surface temperature and the gas will flow again.  Overnight the temperature will have equalised naturally.

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, Speedwell said:

You said it was a very cold night.  As the liquid propane boils off, for you to use as gas, it cools the rest of the bottle.  It could be that you are cooling the bottle so low that there is insufficient gas pressure to drive your stove.  Probably the top of the liquid cools most, so shaking the bottle will increase the surface temperature and the gas will flow again.  Overnight the temperature will have equalised naturally.

If he had Butane (blue bottes) I could believe that.  Surely temperatures in the UK were not so cold last night that Propane (red bottles) could have been affected?

[Speedwell]

I agree about propane v butane but cooling seems to satisfy the symptoms. It's not the outside temperature that counts, it's how fast and how long the gas boils and how well insulated the bottle is.  With butane, at scout camp, I have had to shake and warm the bottle even on a relatively mild evening.  I have just looked up the boiling point of propane, which is -42C, so a bit of a stretch, but can be easily checked by shaking the bottle.

[Johny London]

I thought of it being too cold, but dismissed the idea as I had no problems last winter through the three lots of snow. Didn't want to shake the bottle in case of stirring up the goop. I have another bottle I can try, and another regulator - though I'd just as soon not start taking the regulator off the hose unless I really have to. I know it's not the appliances at least, as the hob and oven are separate. 

I wonder what has changed since last winter.

[Dav and Pen]

I have just had my gas certificate renewed and unlike U.K. the regulator is fixed to a bulkhead or side of the gas locker and connected by a rubber tube which screws on to bottle and regulator. To test the system the surveyor undid the boat side of the regulator to fix his pressure tester and black sludge dripped  out of the regulator. This regulator has only been in use for 2 seasons so 4 bottles. He said it came from the grease they use on the bottle valve. 

Never seen it before but will make sure to check in future.

[Jess--]

could it be the regulator freezing up?

 

I have seen it once where a calor bottle with a dip tube (usually for forklifts that need liquid gas) has been used

most regulators rely on gas evaporating from the liquid inside the tank not not transfer the cold (latent heat of evaporation) to the regulator, if they are suddenly getting liquid gas then the evaporation is happening within the regulator and this can freeze them up fast (pot luck whether they freeze open or closed).

 

on the note of freezing gas bottles... in a previous job I worked heavily with propane, we used to be able to chill an 80 litre tank enough for it to lose all pressure by venting around 25-30 litres of gas