DannyC Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 Hi all, So I have been looking at a 1984 build boat (R& D Fabrications). As of the last survey in 2016, the Hull measurements are approaching 4mm on the baseplate. Is this too thin? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB Lola Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 What was the original thickness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, DannyC said: Hi all, So I have been looking at a 1984 build boat (R& D Fabrications). As of the last survey in 2016, the Hull measurements are approaching 4mm on the baseplate. Is this too thin? Thanks You may have trouble insuring it fully comp below this figure. ETA If its only lost 1mm in 32 years,it should last a while longer yet, so if the price is right,and you are happy with third party only insurance,or can find an insurer that will insure you fully comp, no problem. I was told below 4mm was generally considered to be the cut off point by my surveyor, so 3.9mm. Assuming it hasn't got significantly worse in the last 2 years of course. Edited October 28, 2018 by rusty69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyC Posted October 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 Hi NB Lola, 5mm thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 Assuming a similar rate of wear in the future it may well sink in about 100 years or so. A 5 mil bottom even then was quite thin. My 81 colecraft was 6 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyC Posted October 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, rusty69 said: You may have trouble insuring it fully comp below this figure. ETA If its only lost 1mm in 34 years,it should last a while longer yet, so if the price is right,and you are happy with third party only insurance,or can find an insurer that will insure you fully comp, no problem. I was told below 4mm was generally considered to be the cut off point by my surveyor, so 3.9mm. Do you think it would cause issues selling it down the line? I feel like it would put of potential buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 1 minute ago, DannyC said: Do you think it would cause issues selling it down the line? I feel like it would put of potential buyers. If it is causing you concern, it may well cause other potential buyers the same concern. My main concern would be the potential difficulty insuring it fully comp when it falls below 4mm on the surveyors meter.Obviously you have the option of patching and overplating (and associated expense/upheavel)should the need arise. Stick around , there will be plenty of other views coming. My boat is approaching that same stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DannyC said: Do you think it would cause issues selling it down the line? I feel like it would put of potential buyers. Its putting you off by the sound of it so you may well have answered your own question? Edit to add Rusty seems to agree Edited October 28, 2018 by mrsmelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB Lola Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 In my view 34 years and one mil, good steel. The issue is re selling as many boats start with 10 mil these days and people use this as a yardstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, DannyC said: I feel like it would put of potential buyers. Yes it will. You will either : 1) take a big hit on price you achieve, or 2) take 'years' to sell it, or 3) spend £ thousands on overplating the bottom and selling it at a loss. Having said that why are you buying a boat with a view to selling it ? If you buy the 'right one' it'll last a lifetime. Edited October 28, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 I agree with what they said ^^^^. If you're buying it to sell again shortly, your gonna have buyers thinking the same as you. If you're buying it for keeps, use the worry your highlighting as your bargaining chip and get a boat for life at a good price. Doesn't matter what the next buyer thinks if you're 104 and you've had your money's worth, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 Over the last few years a couple of things have happened, firstly. many (most?) boats start life with 10mm bottoms, as nb Lola says, this has become the yardstick. Secondly people are now using epoxy paint much more and also painting the bottom. So, a boat built with 10mm and properly epoxied (or if not epoxy then regularly painted with something good) is the boat that you will be competing with when you come to sell. That is not really fair but it could become commonplace. Meanwhile people like me could be looking at buying a very good, solid, immensely strong boat that falls short of that magic 10mm - its an ill wind as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 3 hours ago, DannyC said: Do you think it would cause issues selling it down the line? I feel like it would put of potential buyers. Absolutely it will, just as it's bothering you. In practice however, the boat will be perfectly good for many years or decades. It's just that insurance companies get the willies about hulls less than 4mm thick for reasons they are unable to express. This mean boats with 4mm bits of hull are incredibly cheap, good value for money and a great way to get afloat for the minimum outlay if you are ok with having third party only insurance. And yes when you sell, it will have to be dirt cheap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace42 Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Although thickness matters - who says 4mm or 3mm, or 2mm or even 1mm is too thin - or even a few holes and a good bilge pump? It seems the surveyors and insurers have picked a number from nowhere and join a chorus of "Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - your boat is a rust bucket and about to sink or burst apart - and therefore worthless and uninsurable with a comprehensive policy...." A load of nonsense if you ask me, but regretfully it appears to be the case. Where is the evidence of all these boats sinking ? I have not found the canals to be a graveyard of sunken boats - and there must be hundreds by now - So where do all the old boats go at the end of their life? - boat yards to be broken up? And if a boat does sink due to rusty leaks, does the 14 days limit for mooring in one place apply ? - because technically it could be argued a boat is not 'moored' if it has sunk. From another angle, what is the profile of a person who buys a rusty boat - why buy a rusty in the first place? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Horace42 said: From another angle, what is the profile of a person who buys a rusty boat - why buy a rusty in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyC Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Hi. Thanks for all the replys. The plan is to live on board for 3/4 years and then sell. Another question: If I get a new baseplate a couple of years down the line (overplating?), are there complications when doing this, or is it fairly straightforward? Also, as the original hull thickness was 5mm, can I get overplating to make it 6mm, or is that not possible? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, DannyC said: Hi. Thanks for all the replys. The plan is to live on board for 3/4 years and then sell. Another question: If I get a new baseplate a couple of years down the line (overplating?), are there complications when doing this, or is it fairly straightforward? Also, as the original hull thickness was 5mm, can I get overplating to make it 6mm, or is that not possible? Thanks Removal of ballast will probably be required. Particularly if it is not just the base plate that needs overplating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyC Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, rusty69 said: Removal of ballast will probably be required. Particularly if it is not just the base plate that needs overplating. Hmmmm It was also mentioned that the sacrificial join was down to 12mm and that may need doing in the future but would be done with the overplating. A kill two birds with one stone type job. Edited October 29, 2018 by DannyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, DannyC said: Hmmmm It was also mentioned that the sacrificial join was down to 12mm and that may need doing in the future but would be done with the overplating. A kill two birds with one stone type job. 12mm sounds like quite a bit, and will be part of the baseplate anyway.. What were the actual hull measurements like? Edited October 29, 2018 by rusty69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyC Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 So they are down to 4 from a starting 5. But that is since she was built. Surveyor seemed to suggest as part of his recommendation that the overplating issue was something to bear in mind and will need to get done at some point. I feel if we take it and hope that we don't need to do it, it will just be flagged up in the survey when we try to sell it a few years down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, DannyC said: So they are down to 4 from a starting 5. But that is since she was built. Surveyor seemed to suggest as part of his recommendation that the overplating issue was something to bear in mind and will need to get done at some point. I feel if we take it and hope that we don't need to do it, it will just be flagged up in the survey when we try to sell it a few years down the line. Ah ok. So its not just the baseplate. Assuming it hasn't got much worse since the survey, and you are happy with 3rd party only insurance or can find fully comp at below 4mm if it has reached that stage, and you are prepared to accept points in post #10 and the price is right........ Sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 38 minutes ago, DannyC said: The plan is to live on board for 3/4 years and then sell. Then I'd suggest this is not the boat for you. You need one where the potential buyers are not faced with the same dilemma you're having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Sea Dog said: Then I'd suggest this is not the boat for you. You need one where the potential buyers are not faced with the same dilemma you're having. Unless he sells it to someone who doesn't have a survey done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, rusty69 said: Unless he sells it to someone who doesn't have a survey done Wot, as a "hipster pad" darn Lardan like? 1 minute ago, rusty69 said: Unless he sells it to someone who doesn't have a clue Corrected that for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, DannyC said: Hi. Thanks for all the replys. The plan is to live on board for 3/4 years and then sell. Another question: If I get a new baseplate a couple of years down the line (overplating?), are there complications when doing this, or is it fairly straightforward? Also, as the original hull thickness was 5mm, can I get overplating to make it 6mm, or is that not possible? Thanks Overplating is not something that should be undertaken lightly. It will probably cost more to do than you will achieve in increased selling price as most folks, would consider a cheap non-overplated boat that requires overplating is a better option than one already done. The standard of overplating and the condition below the overplate will be unknown and not be able to be seen forcing folks to consider the 'worse case' that it has been poorly done to cover up problems and make the boat saleable. I would NEVER buy an overplated boat. You may find the attached article (written for surveyors) about the "dangers of overplating" of interest. The dangers of overplating.docx Edited October 29, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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