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I Thought Estate Agents were Bad - but Boat Brokers...!


sniffy the great

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I’m looking to buy a boat. I’ve seen quite a few I’m interested in that are being sold via a broker. However, even though I reckon that this is not a lively time of the year for sales, most of them don’t seem interested, at best, and downright obstructive at worst. Only one of the ones I’ve dealt with have thought it worthwhile following up on my interest.

 

I’ve put offers in on boats that have been on sale for over three months. The offers weren’t accepted, fair enough, but you’d think that the fact that I’m interested in a boat that hasn’t sold for a while would be enough for them to follow up with me; try and create  a dialogue between me and the seller. No chance - they just don’t seem interested. All the initiative has to come from the potential buyer. The brokers are happy to do no selling apart from sticking a basic advert on Apollo Duck and then waiting to collect their 6% commission.

 

Or have I just been unlucky?

 

Doug

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9 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

I’m looking to buy a boat. I’ve seen quite a few I’m interested in that are being sold via a broker. However, even though I reckon that this is not a lively time of the year for sales, most of them don’t seem interested, at best, and downright obstructive at worst. Only one of the ones I’ve dealt with have thought it worthwhile following up on my interest.

 

I’ve put offers in on boats that have been on sale for over three months. The offers weren’t accepted, fair enough, but you’d think that the fact that I’m interested in a boat that hasn’t sold for a while would be enough for them to follow up with me; try and create  a dialogue between me and the seller. No chance - they just don’t seem interested. All the initiative has to come from the potential buyer. The brokers are happy to do no selling apart from sticking a basic advert on Apollo Duck and then waiting to collect their 6% commission.

 

Or have I just been unlucky?

 

Doug

With the current buoyant economy all of the boats WILL sell, the broker just has to sit back and wait, buyers will come to them, and it costs them nothing more if it sits there for 1 week or 6 months.

 

Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow.

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Ive bought two boats in the last 15 years from brokers. Both have been superb.

the first is at crick and still trading the second, at  Mercia. Both boats involved surveys negotiations changes in offers  and repairs.( both were over 70 years old).

while both were working for the seller of course, they appeared to act in a positive fashion towards us as buyers.

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30 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

I’m looking to buy a boat. I’ve seen quite a few I’m interested in that are being sold via a broker. However, even though I reckon that this is not a lively time of the year for sales, most of them don’t seem interested, at best, and downright obstructive at worst. Only one of the ones I’ve dealt with have thought it worthwhile following up on my interest.

 

I’ve put offers in on boats that have been on sale for over three months. The offers weren’t accepted, fair enough, but you’d think that the fact that I’m interested in a boat that hasn’t sold for a while would be enough for them to follow up with me; try and create  a dialogue between me and the seller. No chance - they just don’t seem interested. All the initiative has to come from the potential buyer. The brokers are happy to do no selling apart from sticking a basic advert on Apollo Duck and then waiting to collect their 6% commission.

 

Or have I just been unlucky?

 

Doug

Just for starters: What were your offers for these boats, and what were the asking prices?

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2 hours ago, sniffy the great said:

I’m looking to buy a boat. I’ve seen quite a few I’m interested in that are being sold via a broker. However, even though I reckon that this is not a lively time of the year for sales, most of them don’t seem interested, at best, and downright obstructive at worst. Only one of the ones I’ve dealt with have thought it worthwhile following up on my interest.

 

I’ve put offers in on boats that have been on sale for over three months. The offers weren’t accepted, fair enough, but you’d think that the fact that I’m interested in a boat that hasn’t sold for a while would be enough for them to follow up with me; try and create  a dialogue between me and the seller. No chance - they just don’t seem interested. All the initiative has to come from the potential buyer. The brokers are happy to do no selling apart from sticking a basic advert on Apollo Duck and then waiting to collect their 6% commission.

 

Or have I just been unlucky?

 

Doug

 

 

I think your problem lies in the bit I have highlighted above. 

 

As Richard is driving at, boats are absolutely flying off the sales pontoons at the moment the most attractive offers need to be asking price with no messing about wanting surveys, selling the house first, etc etc. With sales being at their most buoyant (see what I did there?) for a decade, it is a beauty contest between buyers competing to win a very limited stock of quality boats for sale.

 

If you think as a wannabe buyer with cash to spend you are a precious and rare breed, no wonder they don't take you seriously. 

 

There is another possibility you won't be aware of too. If you are offering low on grossly over-priced boats, the brokers may already know the owners' price expectations are unrealistic, and see little point on working on either you to lever your offer UP, or on the seller to work his asking price DOWN. You as a buyer will not be aware of a seller's inflexible attitude to a price reduction, but the broker will. He may be weary of passing on three offers a day of asking price less 20% for the last two months....

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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2 hours ago, sniffy the great said:

 However, even though I reckon that this is not a lively time of the year for sales,

What makes you think that, all the brokers I look at are selling boats sensibly priced as fast as they come to market.

Where the seller themselves have set themselves a target price (sometimes just to make their money back or sometimes just ludicrous), then the fault is with the seller and not the broker. 

The broker will revert to the owner after a time period and ask to review, he may suggest paying mooring fees after a 3 or 6 month period to put off the (free winter moorings while on sale for a ludicrous price owners who do exist).

There's also a guy called Julian on here who puts ludicrously low bids in just to get the boat he wants - luckily, he's just found his dream boat for the near future, until he sees his next boat.......:lol:...eh H

 

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The broker is appointed by the seller to work for them They are selected by the seller to use their skills to maximise the price obtained. The broker's income is dependant on turnover often from limited berthage space. Their on going business is highly dependant on reputation. Upon receiving your offer the broker probably gave you immediate feedback on their assessment of the offer, correct? Almost certainly the broker would pass to the seller details of your offer, their assessment, of its quality, and advice as to how it should be handled and ask for further instruction.  Really crap offers would probably receive the advice to ignore, Really good offers would recieve the opposite. The ones in between would vary from, we can always go back to them in the future, to, "Do you want me to put in a counter offer?" Always though the broker should remain the conduit between seller and potential buyer, and remain under seller's instruction. In order to facilitate sales a good broker will cultivate potential buyers and provide assistance to those buyers embarking on the sales process.  I can assure you the more realistic your offer the more dialogue. 

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2 minutes ago, DandV said:

The broker is appointed by the seller to work for them 

 

Curious how this myth persists.

 

The brokers work for themselves. Their only interest is in getting buyers and sellers matched up in such a way that sales result, leading to them collecting the sale commission. The 'negotiators' are so called because their job is to manipulate the seller into reducing their price and the potential buyer into raising theirs, until a match is achieved. They don't give a *uck what price this is at, provided a match is reached. 

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I don’t know how many of the replies above are from brokers - a lot sound as though they are - but they don’t reflect my experience. I’m talking about the suggestion that the market is so buoyant that the boats are “flying” off the moorings (flying boats?).

 

I have a watch list and most haven’t sold in the month I’ve been watching them and most were on sale for some time before I listed them.

 

Doug

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2 minutes ago, DandV said:

The broker is appointed by the seller to work for them They are selected by the seller to use their skills to maximise the price obtained. The broker's income is dependant on turnover often from limited berthage space. Their on going business is highly dependant on reputation.   Really crap offers would probably receive the advice to ignore, Really good offers would recieve the opposite. The ones in between would vary from, we can always go back to them in the future, to, "Do you want me to put in a counter offer?" 

A broker should NEVER not pass an offer on, just in case....something Whilton didnt used to do.

A recent viewing at a large brokerage ended up with the viewers being told, the last offer was 64K yesterday on a boat on sale for less than 3 days, and it was turned down, so the viweres offered 63K. Perhaps the OP is in this buyer category..

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

None are. One however is an estate agent. Now your task is to figure out which one!!

 

 

Oooh!  May we all have a guess? 

 

3 hours ago, sniffy the great said:

 

Or have I just been unlucky?

Depends on the boat(s), the seller(s) and the offer(s).  The days of offering 40% of asking price and waiting a week for a counter offer are long gone.  If the brokers think they can get a full asking price offer from the next buyer, they will wait. 

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10 hours ago, sniffy the great said:

 

I have a watch list and most haven’t sold in the month I’ve been watching them and most were on sale for some time before I listed them.

Well there's a whole list of boats you could have bought if your idea of a fair price matched that of the seller. If you were even in the right ballpark with your valuation you'd be having at least some negotiations, rather that having the door slammed in your face.   Sounds to me like someone is out of step here and you think it's everyone else.

 

Easy done by a new buyer in an unfamiliar market though, I guess.  :)

 

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10 hours ago, sniffy the great said:

I don’t know how many of the replies above are from brokers - a lot sound as though they are - but they don’t reflect my experience. I’m talking about the suggestion that the market is so buoyant that the boats are “flying” off the moorings (flying boats?).

 

I have a watch list and most haven’t sold in the month I’ve been watching them and most were on sale for some time before I listed them.

 

Doug

In which case I would suggest that you are looking at boats which are overpriced to start with.

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To return to my point. The lack of enterprise and energy of brokers.

 

Here are three examples of recent dealings:

 

1. A boat that has been over four months on a broker’s books and not sold so, according to several posters above, probably overpriced. I made a low offer. Refused. Fair enough. The broker says the seller wanted something closer to the asking price. Fair enough. I didn’t feel it was worth it so didn’t increase my offer. Time passes and the boat is still for sale. As someone with some sales experience, I am totally amazed that the broker hasn’t deemed it worth their time to make a follow-up call or email. In their shoes, I’d certainly keep in touch with someone who had shown interest in an item that they still haven’t been able to sell. If I made it clear I was no longer interested then they should obviously not bother me but I haven’t. Basic stuff.

 

2. I’m interested in a boat in a marina which is a six hour round trip away. I spoke to the broker. “Where are you coming from” he said. I told him. “That quite a trip”, he said “so ring us before you come and we’ll try and make sure someone is here to show you the boat”. Try....! Sorry mate, if you can’t be bothered to make absolutely sure you’ll be there, I’m not driving for 6 hours to look at a boat.

 

3. Another boat, even further away (600 mile round trip). Very few details on the ad so I emailed to ask one specific question (is there a toilet compartment?) and for more photos and details, particularly service history. After a couple of days, the broker got round to answering. In answer to my specific question the reply was “no toilet on board” - a somewhat ambivalent answer. The response to my request for more details was to send me a pdf of the ad that was on Apollo Duck which is where I contacted them from in the first place. I emailed back to say thanks but I’ve already got that info, can you send some more and some more photos? No reply from them in over a week. The boat is still for sale.

 

Experiences like this are what make me feel uncharitable towards brokers. Respondents to this thread have suggested it’s my fault for looking at the wrong boats, putting in offers that are too low and in general not adopting the meek, respectful tone towards seller’s agents that a prospective buyer should. Maybe that’s how things work on the world of boat sales.

 

Doug

Edited by sniffy the great
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8 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

To return to my point. The lack of enterprise and energy of brokers.

 

Here are three examples of recent dealings:

 

1. A boat that has been over four months on a broker’s books and not sold so, according to several posters above, probably overpriced. I made a low offer. Refused. Fair enough. The broker says the seller wanted something closer to the asking price. Fair enough. I didn’t feel it was worth it so didn’t increase my offer. Time passes and as someone with some sales experience, I am totally amazed that the broker hasn’t deemed it worth their time to make a follow-up call or email. In their shoes, I’d certainly keep in touch with someone who had shown interest in an item that they still haven’t been able to sell. If I made it clear I was no longer interested then they should obviously not bother me but I haven’t. Basic stuff.

 

2. I’m interested in a boat in a marina which is a six hour round trip away. I spoke to the broker. “Where are you coming from” he said. I told him. “That quite a trip”, he said “so ring us before you come and we’ll and make sure someone is here to show you the boat”. Try....! Sorry mate, if you can’t be bothered to make absolutely sure you’ll be there, I’m not driving for 6 hours to look at a boat.

 

3. Another boat, even further away (600 mile round trip). Very few details on the ad so I emailed to ask one specific question (is there a toilet compartment?) and for more photos and details, particularly service history. After a couple of days, the broker got round to answering. In answer to my specific question the reply was “no toilet on board” - a somewhat ambivalent answer. The response to my request for more details was to send me a pdf of the ad that was on Apollo Duck which is where I contacted them from in the first place. I emailed back to say thanks but I’ve already got that info, can you send some more and some more photos? No reply from them in over a week. The boat is still for sale.

 

Experiences like this are what make me feel uncharitable towards brokers. Respondents to this thread have suggested it’s my fault for looking at the wrong boats, putting in offers that are too and in general not adopting the meek, respectful tone towards seller’s agents that a prospective buyer should. Maybe that’s how things work on the world of boat sales.

 

Doug

Your point 1. I don’t think this is surprising. You get a lot of time wasters looking at boats and then, in order to try to justify the time wasting, put in an offer that is highly unlikely to be accepted. If you were interested in buying the boat you would have raised your offer. That you didn’t demonstates to the broker that you aren’t actually interested in buying it. So why would he waste more of his time trying to persuade a lost cause?

 

Your point 2. broker response seems perfect. Or did you miss out a word or two from the quoted bit?

 

As for the “meek, respectful tone...” bit you are making that up!

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8 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

Respondents to this thread have suggested it’s my fault for looking at the wrong boats, putting in offers that are too low and in general not adopting the meek, respectful tone towards seller’s agents that a prospective buyer should. Maybe that’s how things work on the world of boat sales.

 

Now you're beginning to 'get' it!

 

But more seriously, the world of boats is definitely a few decades behind the real world when it comes to 'customer service'. The thing is, consumers are trained by the media these days to think they have all the power, they can expect and demand potential suppliers to lean over backwards to court them as there is always another supplier to use if not. This doesn't quite happen in the world of boating. If the broker has the boat you want, the power balance is rather different. Similarly if you want some diesel as you are running out. Or some specialist machining done. Or a boat built to your tastes. There just isn't an endless supply of alternative supplies from the one you just found.  

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18 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

I am totally amazed that the broker hasn’t deemed it worth their time to make a follow-up call or email. In their shoes, I’d certainly keep in touch with someone who had shown interest in an item that they still haven’t been able to sell. If I made it clear I was no longer interested then they should obviously not bother me but I haven’t. Basic stuff.

 

 

I totally agree with this point. A good salesman should note what prospective customers want and should keep in touch with them. That's how we bought our current house.

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Fair enough comments. There are brokers and brokers, but it is up to the seller who they choose, hopefully after assessing what each broker has to offer. Some brokers offer as an advantage low fees. Others extended free secure moorings. Others enforce their contractual terms with mooring holders. Potential sellers have hopefully assessed the quality and spread  of the media "brochure" material the brokers prepare for each sale Some sellers will only list with brokers who are prepared to list at their over inflated estimate of worth. Like everything else some things, brokers, and boats are value, some are not. If brokers are not giving value, and undoubtedly some do not, then it is the seller who is missing out. But it is the seller's descision how they had chosen to sell. 

 

Edited by DandV
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43 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

A boat that has been over four months on a broker’s books and not sold so, according to several posters above, probably overpriced. I made a low offer. Refused. Fair enough. The broker says the seller wanted something closer to the asking price. Fair enough. I didn’t feel it was worth it so didn’t increase my offer. Time passes and the boat is still for sale. As someone with some sales experience, I am totally amazed that the broker hasn’t deemed it worth their time to make a follow-up call or email. In their shoes, I’d certainly keep in touch with someone who had shown interest in an item that they still haven’t been able to sell. If I made it clear I was no longer interested then they should obviously not bother me but I haven’t. Basic stuff.

Had you considered that the seller may have told the broker "don't bother to pass on any offers more than X% off the asking price, just refuse them".

 

Could be totally wrong, but, I'm guessing from your questions that you are looking at the bottom end of the smaller GRP market - if so, there may be less room for 'movement', particularly if the seller is in no rush to sell.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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we don't have our boat yet 2019 will hopefully be our year to move onto the cut, when we do start to look for our boat I will hope to deal with rugby boats as I find there honesty shines on their vlogs

OP this may be of interest to you

 

 

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15 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Ive bought two boats in the last 15 years from brokers. Both have been superb.

the first is at crick and still trading the second, at  Mercia. Both boats involved surveys negotiations changes in offers  and repairs.( both were over 70 years old).

while both were working for the seller of course, they appeared to act in a positive fashion towards us as buyers.

As people now seem to be naming good service can I assume that the broker at Crick is ABNB. If so, having been a vendor and buyer, their service was excellent.

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