ditchcrawler Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Coming down the cheshire locks has set me thinking and maybe some of you can answer these questions for me How long ago were the bridges renumbered and why? Bridge 145 still displays 143 on the other side. When the T&M was first dug did any of the locks have a single bottom gate? Looking at the near side of lock 48, known as Church Bottom Lock the gate recess for the bottom gate looks long enough to take a single gate. Also at Church lock but this time top there is a wall which I assume was built to support the soil around the head of the lock on the near side. This has two brick abutments, obviously to give the wall strength, but why did they at one time extend above the top of the wall. What made in necessary to pair the locks and why only as far as Wheelock? Edited October 20, 2018 by ditchcrawler reorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 In regard to the duplicated locks I was of the understanding that single horse boats could cross without being held up & with the advent of pairs they in effect didn't have to turn the lock around to pass the butty ,it could be done at more or less the same time ,I'm not sure but think the salt extraction was a factor in & around Middlewich. A traditional lock was replaced by a steel monstrosity at Rode Heath due to salt work ssubsidence & was the sole usage for a time, but then the stone/brick lock was restored & the steel one removed completely No Idea about the single bottom gate other than the recess on some locks was bigger to accommodate the interconnecting sluice between the 2 locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Most contemporary sources I have found show single top gates on narrow canal locks, as seen in this French plate, which dates from c1820. The American Strickland published a book on English public works in 1826 in which he shows a Birmingham & Liverpool Canal lock, ie the SUC, with single gates at either end. One suggestion for the conversion to mitre gates is that it speeded traffic when railway competition began from the 1830s and 1840s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted October 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 49 minutes ago, X Alan W said: No Idea about the single bottom gate other than the recess on some locks was bigger to accommodate the interconnecting sluice between the 2 locks. This gate recess is on the outside not between locks, I only noticed it on one lock but they have all been mucked about with so much during their life its hard to say what is original and what is repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 I guess the bridge numbers were renumbered because additional bridges had been built after the canal was opened, although modern practice is to number additional ones xxA, xxB etc. The first time I "did" the 4 Counties ring, Thurlwood Steel Lock was functional along with its conventional partner. To my eternal regret I chose the conventional lock, and the next time we did the 4 Counties Ring, Thurlwood Steel Lock was being decommissioned. Now, apart from the line of the canal and a grassy slope, there is no sign of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, cuthound said: The first time I "did" the 4 Counties ring, Thurlwood Steel Lock was functional along with its conventional partner. To my eternal regret I chose the conventional lock, and the next time we did the 4 Counties Ring, Thurlwood Steel Lock was being decommissioned. Now, apart from the line of the canal and a grassy slope, there is no sign of it. Classic case of use it or..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted October 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, matty40s said: Classic case of use it or..... And no one did, before my time, I never even saw it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, matty40s said: Classic case of use it or..... I know, but it looked ever so complicated to operate! ? https://goo.gl/images/zYj2cy Edited October 21, 2018 by cuthound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearley Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 12 hours ago, cuthound said: I guess the bridge numbers were renumbered because additional bridges had been built after the canal was opened, although modern practice is to number additional ones xxA, xxB etc. The first time I "did" the 4 Counties ring, Thurlwood Steel Lock was functional along with its conventional partner. To my eternal regret I chose the conventional lock, and the next time we did the 4 Counties Ring, Thurlwood Steel Lock was being decommissioned. Now, apart from the line of the canal and a grassy slope, there is no sign of it. We cruised the ring in 1980. The steel lock was standing then but out of use I recall. Got a photo somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Bridges on the L&LC seem to have been numbered in the 1960s, as the old canal company papers always used names. I suspect it was done during the national re-evaluation and identification of BW property. Bridges on the L&L Canal which are CRT's responsibility have a simple number, while those which are the responsibility of others end with a letter. The re-numbering could also have been done during the 'Bridgeguard' project of around the same time, where all BW's bridges had their condition recorded so that maintenance and reconstruction could be better organised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo No2 Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 hour ago, pearley said: We cruised the ring in 1980. The steel lock was standing then but out of use I recall. Got a photo somewhere. Image © Mark Wilson. It's titled 'Thurlwood prototype Steel Lock' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 hour ago, pearley said: We cruised the ring in 1980. The steel lock was standing then but out of use I recall. Got a photo somewhere. Mid 1970s - Out of use at the time, so we had to use the conventional lock alongside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearley Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 And then there was the warehouse with loading bay out into the canal. Demolished much the same time I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, cuthound said: I know, but it looked ever so complicated to operate! ? https://goo.gl/images/zYj2cy It was with with several sets of safety locking bars to stop the gates at both ends being raised at the same time it also took longer to fill as the filling setup only allowed a small opening & water ingress until almost at a level the offical name was Thurlwood steel l but boaters always referred to it as Rhode Heath poor old Cheshire locks they don't know if that's their proper name or if it's Heartbreak Hill Edited October 21, 2018 by X Alan W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: And no one did, before my time, I never even saw it I used it once, just to say I had done it. Never again! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) From around 64 until 67 ish the std lock had a wall bulge that made passing a full length boat a very hit & miss affair some boats could be chained in & pass some were a flushing job if going down hill ,odd ones could be persuaded to enter empty lock with a top paddle raised & dropped, so to be sure of passage ,the steel lock had to be used although not well liked The salt extraction in the area stopped or was almost nil in around late 67early 68& the std lock wall was rebuilt taking away the bulge & as the conventional lock was much more straight forward to operate, so the steel lock fell into not used much, as a pair of boats could pass through the std lock in less time including refill than a single use of the steel lock come around 70 the steel lock was checked & found to require extensive repair work so it was left to fall into disrepair & eventually closed & demolished the idea behind it being the salt extraction caused a good deal of subsidence & the std lock resembled something made of out of jelly& moved in all directions the idea of the steel unit was it would move but as a unit & maintain dimensions for trouble free for passing through i can't comment as to if this was a success or not Edited October 21, 2018 by X Alan W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 It has been discussed before, but pairing of the locks was deemed important for the trade and began around the time the new Harecastle Tunnel was opened. There were plans for further improvement as discussed in my book Silent Highways, sadly these were not carried out. Thurlwood Lock was a BW improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Heartland said: It has been discussed before, but pairing of the locks was deemed important for the trade and began around the time the new Harecastle Tunnel was opened. There were plans for further improvement as discussed in my book Silent Highways, sadly these were not carried out. Thurlwood Lock was a BW improvement. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 There were a succession of engineers that were involved with the Trent and Mersey after the time of James Brindley and Hugh Henshall. Thomas Dadford had an input at the time the Coventry was made to Fradley. John Rennie was engineer on various projects until his death. Thomas Telford was involved with the design and construction of the new Harecastle Tunnel and then there was Trubshaw who appears to have supervised the various lock reconstruction schemes in Cheshire. Sadly T & M records are missing and secondary sources have to be relied upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimYoung Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) Around 1970 we went through on a Willow Wren hire boat The mop head to the right is me! Tim Edited October 24, 2018 by TimYoung clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Heartland said: There were a succession of engineers that were involved with the Trent and Mersey after the time of James Brindley and Hugh Henshall. Thomas Dadford had an input at the time the Coventry was made to Fradley. John Rennie was engineer on various projects until his death. Thomas Telford was involved with the design and construction of the new Harecastle Tunnel and then there was Trubshaw who appears to have supervised the various lock reconstruction schemes in Cheshire. Sadly T & M records are missing and secondary sources have to be relied upon. ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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