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Tiller Jammed Advice Please


Peter009

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Hi there, we are currently in the process of fixing up our boat and when the engine was being fitted the other day we noticed that the tiller/rudder is jammed and will not move at all, the boat was sitting for 3 years in a yard before we brought it and am wondering if something has seized due to that.  We have so far put a lot of wd40 in the area and hoping that will loosen it does anyone know what could be causing this and what is the best way to deal with it.  Obviously dont want a boat that only goes around in circles as we cant move the tiller or rudder we would be the laughing stock of the canals !!?

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34 minutes ago, Halsey said:

pictures of the deck fittings at the base of the tiller would help ………………. as would the make and age of boat

Hi have just found some pics sorry not the best but all I have at the moment as we are not at the boat until Monday but not sure if these pics are any good, the boat is 4 years old and is made by Yorkshire Boat Builders but had been sitting in a boat yard 3 years before we brought it and we had to get it sandblasted due to the surface rust it is now painted, thanks

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In the second picture, the shaft through the stern gland, with no propeller is clearly fouling the rudder and would prevent it turning in one direction. Is rhis still the case? You say the boat now has an engine. Does it also have a propeller and prop shaft and are they connected to the engine? Are they fouling the rudder and preventing it turning too? Is the boat in the water, or out? If in, have you tried looking down the weed hatch to check if somerhing is preventing the rudder turning?

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I was wondering why the rudder was sticking out of the side in the first photo.... 'til I saw the last photo revealing the square stern!

 

Surely the shaft is a red herring?  If its not, and he's missed something that obvious, this is just the start of the OP's problems! :help:

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3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

In the second picture, the shaft through the stern gland, with no propeller is clearly fouling the rudder and would prevent it turning in one direction. Is rhis still the case? You say the boat now has an engine. Does it also have a propeller and prop shaft and are they connected to the engine? Are they fouling the rudder and preventing it turning too? Is the boat in the water, or out? If in, have you tried looking down the weed hatch to check if somerhing is preventing the rudder turning?

Hi the shaft has been taken away to be machined and will be back next week, the propellor is yet to go on, my understanding is that the previous owner had the engine only sitting in the engine bay on wood, currently the engine is actually being fitted over the next week, I have been informed that the tiller/rudder did move freely last year by the previous owner so am now assuming this is rust however since we have owned it we have not moved it at all and only really noticed it the other day.  We have been told that the bushes ? to the bottom have probably seized and the engine fitter the other day did take the bolts out of the swan neck but still no movement he also tried a scaffold bar to move it.  

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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I can't see a taper or thread on that shaft so assume its a dummy, It may push forward, but as Jen says it would not stop the rudder moving in about half its movement.

I sort of assumed it was a dummy just there so the boat could be put in the water without sinking until a real set of drive gear is installed. Just wanted to clear up that someone hasn't installed a real prop and shaft too far back and fouled up the rudder. Unlikely, but weirder things have happened!

 

Jen

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Hi also to explain the shaft is no longer on the boat it has been taken away these are older pictures but there is nothing physical stopping the rudder from moving that we can see I will try to get down to the boat today and take more pictures of the area as it is now 

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1 minute ago, Peter009 said:

Hi the shaft has been taken away to be machined and will be back next week, the propellor is yet to go on, my understanding is that the previous owner had the engine only sitting in the engine bay on wood, currently the engine is actually being fitted over the next week, I have been informed that the tiller/rudder did move freely last year by the previous owner so am now assuming this is rust however since we have owned it we have not moved it at all and only really noticed it the other day.  We have been told that the bushes ? to the bottom have probably seized and the engine fitter the other day did take the bolts out of the swan neck but still no movement he also tried a scaffold bar to move it.  

 

In that case I would attack the cup on the skeg with a decent hammer, plenty of penetrating oil and maybe a large blow-lamp while its out of the water.

 

I suspect that if you get someone to try to move the tiller while you inspect the shaft going into the cup you will see if it is tuck in there or above. In any case why did the yard black the skeg if the rudder  cup was full of rust.

 

I would still MYSELF take the top of the upper bearing and start trying to work out what is going on.

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Just now, Boater Sam said:

The top bearing is one of those rubber things, not a real bearing so that should not be seized. Bottom one could be but its hardly likely to be seized solid, its only a puny cup.

Lots of spiders in the tiller tube holding hands?

Hopefully its lots of spiders holding hands and they run away when they realise we are poking around in their home :)

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

In that case I would attack the cup on the skeg with a decent hammer, plenty of penetrating oil and maybe a large blow-lamp while its out of the water.

 

I suspect that if you get someone to try to move the tiller while you inspect the shaft going into the cup you will see if it is tuck in there or above. In any case why did the yard black the skeg if the rudder  cup was full of rust.

 

I would still MYSELF take the top of the upper bearing and start trying to work out what is going on.

Hi Tony, yes why did the yard black the skeg !! exactly my thoughts, this is one of our various problems we have had where we are however a blow lamp is something I was thinking about earlier and was going to try that have already smoothed it in WD40 yesterday to hopefully get some movement but think I will go down today and see what is happening with it as maybe that has helped also will get some more pics 

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1 minute ago, Peter009 said:

Hopefully its lots of spiders holding hands and they run away when they realise we are poking around in their home :)

All boat yards make sure there are spiders installed on board as part of the pre delivery inspection. Wouldn't be a proper boat without spiders.

Jen?

 

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Although it does not look like it I wonder if the rudder has been cilled and the stock is jambing in the tube - or the tube and stock have rusted together. I suspect the upper bearing will have to come off to allow a bit of lateral movement to hopefully break and rust up, wherever it is.

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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Although it does not look like it I wonder if the rudder has been cilled and the stock is jambing in the tube - or the tube and stock have rusted together. I suspect the upper bearing will have to come off to allow a bit of lateral movement to hopefully break and rust up, wherever it is.

 

I'm not convinced this boat has ever been in a lock to get cilled.  In fact I'm notconvinced it hs ever been in the water........

 

31 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi have just found some pics sorry not the best but all I have at the moment as we are not at the boat until Monday but not sure if these pics are any good, the boat is 4 years old and is made by Yorkshire Boat Builders but had been sitting in a boat yard 3 years before we brought it and we had to get it sandblasted due to the surface rust it is now painted, thanks

 

 

Perhaps OP could clarify?........

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4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Not relevant to your main query, but it looks to have a remqarkably short swim.

is this a wide beam?

I think third picture down to me seems to give the game away as a widebeam but what difference does that make to a jammed tiller/rudder ?

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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

I'm not convinced this boat has ever been in a lock to get cilled.  In fact I'm notconvinced it hs ever been in the water........

 

 

Perhaps OP could clarify?........

Hi sorry should of mentioned this has never been in the water the previous owner did not have enough time for it  left it to the elements in the boat yard when we got it we sandblasted it and it has been painted primed etc, am wondering whether the hull paint has been put on too thick in that area if so will use heat to try to loosen it as well am going to have a go at this either today or tomorrow but whatever it is am hoping that it is not a huge problem.

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1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

It means it probably won't need one! ;)

 

I know some of you sewer tube owners find it often hard to understand, but a boat of 7 foot beam is the weird boat not boats of a greater girth, there are literaly millions more boats in the world wider than the silly seven feet we are stuck with and they move around lots and lots as did my so called widebeam that I lived on. So there ?

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