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NB Esk

Unusual windlass? (photos)

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Wondered if anyone has come across one of these?  Found it in the bottom of a storage bin, in the engine room of HATFIELD.  There were some engine special tools in the same bin and as it's very "commercial " in appearance, I'm thinking it could well be original equipment, dating from the mid 1950's.

The wooden roller is big enough for two hands and the whole thing isn't too heavy.  The best bit is the adjustable socket, which enables the throw to be altered.  The obvious flaw is that the socket will only ever push so far onto the paddle gear shaft.  However, tested it on some of the worn and stiff gear on the C&H and it's a breeze.

So, is it unusual or just that I've not seen one like it?.....

 

 

IMG_0198.JPG

IMG_0199.JPG

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It's different! The roller handle points toward starter handle, but the rest doesn't. Maybe an adaptation.

-----------

A modern one - who from? What for?

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ISTR Shamus Walsh producing a similar looking one or more in the early /mid 60's one of the moorers at Norbury asked him to produce to the guys design Don't know how many he made

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1 hour ago, Derek R. said:

It's different! The roller handle points toward starter handle, but the rest doesn't. Maybe an adaptation.

-----------

A modern one - who from? What for?

I wondered about that but closer inspection says it just feels right.  Out of shot there's a blind rivet that stops the socket part coming off, at the end of it's travel.

 

 

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have a modern one like it

Not seen one like it advertised, is there a makers mark?

 

 

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I doubt if it was used for turning anything stiff or heavy as I'd reckon that long bolt through the handle would bend and/or as well as also distort the flat strip frame.

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Has Hatfield had or still has any hand winches for bringing  the Tom Puddings into line? Could be for operating those. There used to be small winches fitted to the various designs of BWB push tugs and certain small dredgers which used a similar sized device, though I haven't seen a variable throw one before, I can see that  a high speed small throw would be handy to take up a lot of slack in the cables  and a long throw for final tightening.

Bill

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I saw something like it being used in France once. We were on our bicycles and had stopped outside a cafe waiting for it to open for breakfast. When it did a chap came out with a handle in his hand and presented it onto a very complicated winding mechanism with a collar worm running up and down a screwed shaft, like a lathe leadscrew with lots of little cogs and levers. With a big beam  of pride on his face he began winding his handle and lo and behold a tiny striped canopy unfolded above the door which was about 3' wide. A bit ridiculous really, one hand could have pushed it up and down in a second, but he was very pleased with it. Typically French who are the past masters at making something very simple over complicated. Their cars were the same.  His breakfast was horrible.

Edited by bizzard
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2 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Their cars were the same. 

 

Yes. Those Citroen Goddesses which settled down onto the road when the engine was off, and rose up like a lumbering giant when started again are a good example. 

 

Very amusing to watch as a small boy.

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53 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes. Those Citroen Goddesses which settled down onto the road when the engine was off, and rose up like a lumbering giant when started again are a good example. 

 

Very amusing to watch as a small boy.

I once re piped one of those, took about 21/2 days & when I'd finished I told the gaffer I wouldn't be doing another.....

 

 

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2 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

I once re piped one of those, took about 21/2 days & when I'd finished I told the gaffer I wouldn't be doing another.....

 

 

The dreaded DS, = the headlamps went crosseyed going around corners.

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1 hour ago, billh said:

Has Hatfield had or still has any hand winches for bringing  the Tom Puddings into line? Could be for operating those. There used to be small winches fitted to the various designs of BWB push tugs and certain small dredgers which used a similar sized device, though I haven't seen a variable throw one before, I can see that  a high speed small throw would be handy to take up a lot of slack in the cables  and a long throw for final tightening.

Bill

It's a good point Bill.  When I came across it, the first thing I did was try it on both the anchor winch and the winch on the Jebus.  The shaft tapers on both were way too big but that's not to say it didn't do something similar.  HATFIELD did see service as a BACAT tug.

 

 

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1 hour ago, NB Esk said:

I once re piped one of those, took about 21/2 days & when I'd finished I told the gaffer I wouldn't be doing another.....

 

 

Awful weren't they. A massive spaghetti jumble of tiny weeny piping, miles of it.  The CX and GS were just as bad, just smaller. It wasn't really until the Saxo came out that Citroens got more sensible. The Saxo wasn't a bad little car and quite simple.

1 hour ago, X Alan W said:

The dreaded DS, = the headlamps went crosseyed going around corners.

Those were the later DS's. They were four headlamp cars. It was the two inner low beam lamps that swivelled with the wheels,,cable operated.

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I think the Fullers are putting together a museum collection of old windlasses if you want a good home for it...……………... 

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7 hours ago, Derek R. said:

It's different! The roller handle points toward starter handle, but the rest doesn't. Maybe an adaptation.

-----------

A modern one - who from? What for?

An adjustable throw windlass, long through for the heavy paddles shorter for winding them down again, adjust it so you don't catch your knuckles on the beams. The one s I had were fitted with a double head to fit both size spindles. Just been out and cant find them so I may have given them away. They were advertised in one of the canal magazines about 15 years ago.

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7 hours ago, bizzard said:

 Typically French who are the past masters at making something very simple over complicated. Their cars were the same. 

Kathys latest car is a triumph of pretty design over usefulness, she has the latest C5, now rebadged DS5.

4 hours ago, bizzard said:

Awful weren't they. A massive spaghetti jumble of tiny weeny piping, miles of it.  The CX and GS were just as bad, just smaller. It wasn't really until the Saxo came out that Citroens got more sensible. The Saxo wasn't a bad little car and quite simple.

Those were the later DS's. They were four headlamp cars. It was the two inner low beam lamps that swivelled with the wheels,,cable operated.

Her car has the latest headlamps which do the same, unfortunately Citroën don't produce spares so when Kathys headlamp got cracked in a car park and became a kettle on the first wet day in August, it was off the road until a week ago.

In 8 days in France I didn't see a single one. It's cup holders cannot get a cup in unless you spill the coffee, the front pillars (2)obscure all vision when going round roundabouts, the central console is so big you can't relax your legs on a long journey, the charging media USB socket for phone connection is in a central drawer only big enough for a Nokia 3310, if you run the cable out, the drawer constantly opens and sticks in your left arm. There is no headlight up and down control, the LED headlights are set too high and almost everyone flashes you. The car is undriveable in ice or snow as there is no way to turn off the 279*approx safety settings installed. Even taking it approx way from flood water resulted in the car almost shutting down due to 1"of water. Park it on a slope and the oil danger light comes on. 

....and then there's the AdBlue warning that will completely shut the car down if you run out.....just to keep the Eurocrats happy.

It also only does 40mpg, twin turbo lag cuts in tomorrow,  and it goes through tyres like Lewis Hamilton.

But it's pretty.

 

 

Edited to add, sport mode button failed at 3 weeks, winter mode button failed at the first frost. Winter mode button just puts a frost sign on the dash.

Edited by matty40s

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5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Kathys latest car is a triumph of pretty design over usefulness, she has the latest C5, now rebadged DS5.

Her car has the latest headlamps which do the same, unfortunately Citroën don't produce spares so when Kathys headlamp got cracked in a car park and became a kettle on the first wet day in August, it was off the road until a week ago.

In 8 days in France I didn't see a single one. It's cup holders cannot get a cup in unless you spill the coffee, the front pillars (2)obscure all vision when going round roundabouts, the central console is so big you can't relax your legs on a long journey, the charging media USB socket for phone connection is in a central drawer only big enough for a Nokia 3310, if you run the cable out, the drawer constantly opens and sticks in your left arm. There is no headlight up and down control, the LED headlights are set too high and almost everyone flashes you. The car is undriveable in ice or snow as there is no way to turn off the 279*approx safety settings installed. Even taking it approx way from flood water resulted in the car almost shutting down due to 1"of water. Park it on a slope and the oil danger light comes on. 

....and then there's the AdBlue warning that will completely shut the car down if you run out.....just to keep the Eurocrats happy.

It also only does 40mpg, twin turbo lag cuts in tomorrow,  and it goes through tyres like Lewis Hamilton.

But it's pretty.

 

 

Edited to add, sport mode button failed at 3 weeks, winter mode button failed at the first frost. Winter mode button just puts a frost sign on the dash.

The French just seem to buy new Dacias these days. Owned by renault they are readily available and cheap in the showroom next door.

 

KISS.

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38 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Kathys latest car is a triumph of pretty design over usefulness, she has the latest C5, now rebadged DS5.

Her car has the latest headlamps which do the same, unfortunately Citroën don't produce spares so when Kathys headlamp got cracked in a car park and became a kettle on the first wet day in August, it was off the road until a week ago.

In 8 days in France I didn't see a single one. It's cup holders cannot get a cup in unless you spill the coffee, the front pillars (2)obscure all vision when going round roundabouts, the central console is so big you can't relax your legs on a long journey, the charging media USB socket for phone connection is in a central drawer only big enough for a Nokia 3310, if you run the cable out, the drawer constantly opens and sticks in your left arm. There is no headlight up and down control, the LED headlights are set too high and almost everyone flashes you. The car is undriveable in ice or snow as there is no way to turn off the 279*approx safety settings installed. Even taking it approx way from flood water resulted in the car almost shutting down due to 1"of water. Park it on a slope and the oil danger light comes on. 

....and then there's the AdBlue warning that will completely shut the car down if you run out.....just to keep the Eurocrats happy.

It also only does 40mpg, twin turbo lag cuts in tomorrow,  and it goes through tyres like Lewis Hamilton.

But it's pretty.

 

 

Edited to add, sport mode button failed at 3 weeks, winter mode button failed at the first frost. Winter mode button just puts a frost sign on the dash.

But otherwise, it's ok?

 

 

 

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Citroen stopped producing cars that were true Citroens with the advent of the BX, the first car to be produced with Peugeot at the financial controls.

Some will say the last Citroen was the CX, a large car. The original DS and ID models were innovative and ahead of their time, though beset with issues after having run out of development time. Nonetheless, they were ground breaking despite using a version of the Traction Avant engine, though the original idea was to power it with a flat six water cooled boxer engine.

On the unveiling of the car at the Paris Motor show in 1955, 12,000 orders had been taken by the end of day one.

 

The GS was a mid sized car with simpler hydraulic brakes and suspension than the DS, and was car of the year in its first year of production in 1970. Production ran until 1985.

 

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/passenger-cars/passenger-cars-index.html

 

The Saxo, and much that followed are simply Euro boxes with a host of problems such as most modern cars inherit with over complex systems of engine and gadget management. Simple they are not, nor long lived. We have a Saxo, and we'd rather be driving the 2cv or the GS any day. In comparison, the suspension of our Nissan is a iron shod cart. And both the older Citroens can be started on the handle - not unlike that in the original post!! Back on topic!

 

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23 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

But otherwise, it's ok?

 

 

 

No, its handling is like a whale, you never feel like you are in charge of the car other than on a long straight road. Hit a bend and the suspension is like one of the old British Rail APT trains, you aren't sure what is happening and you certainly ain't sure the car is going the same way that you are steering. It has 3 glass panels with blinds in the roof, but no sun roof. Rear seat courtesy lights only work when the engine is running, crap when you are trying to find bags in the back in the dark. 

The rear window is designed to fit in with the cars sleek lines, the top bar at the rear is directly in the centre of vision of the driver, meaning the rear view mirror picks up car wheels, or sky. The rear wiper has a radius of about 2cm, letting you see the wheels of following cars in the rain.

The car has a clever warning light system that shows you an orange warning light if there is a car to your left or right, the light is situated in the wing mirror. If you look in the wing mirror you generally see the vehicle and not the orange light in my experience.

 

edited to add - but its pretty...

Edited by matty40s

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1 hour ago, matty40s said:

No, its handling is like a whale, you never feel like you are in charge of the car other than on a long straight road. Hit a bend and the suspension is like one of the old British Rail APT trains, you aren't sure what is happening and you certainly ain't sure the car is going the same way that you are steering. It has 3 glass panels with blinds in the roof, but no sun roof. Rear seat courtesy lights only work when the engine is running, crap when you are trying to find bags in the back in the dark. 

The rear window is designed to fit in with the cars sleek lines, the top bar at the rear is directly in the centre of vision of the driver, meaning the rear view mirror picks up car wheels, or sky. The rear wiper has a radius of about 2cm, letting you see the wheels of following cars in the rain.

The car has a clever warning light system that shows you an orange warning light if there is a car to your left or right, the light is situated in the wing mirror. If you look in the wing mirror you generally see the vehicle and not the orange light in my experience.

 

edited to add - but its pretty...

 

Soooo...... I'm really curious now. 

 

Did you help her buy this car? Or did she choose it by herself??!!

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, matty40s said:

No, its handling is like a whale, you never feel like you are in charge of the car other than on a long straight road. Hit a bend and the suspension is like one of the old British Rail APT trains, you aren't sure what is happening and you certainly ain't sure the car is going the same way that you are steering. It has 3 glass panels with blinds in the roof, but no sun roof. Rear seat courtesy lights only work when the engine is running, crap when you are trying to find bags in the back in the dark. 

The rear window is designed to fit in with the cars sleek lines, the top bar at the rear is directly in the centre of vision of the driver, meaning the rear view mirror picks up car wheels, or sky. The rear wiper has a radius of about 2cm, letting you see the wheels of following cars in the rain.

The car has a clever warning light system that shows you an orange warning light if there is a car to your left or right, the light is situated in the wing mirror. If you look in the wing mirror you generally see the vehicle and not the orange light in my experience.

 

edited to add - but its pretty...

But what colour is it...?

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15 hours ago, matty40s said:

Kathys latest car is a triumph of pretty design over usefulness, she has the latest C5, now rebadged DS5.

Her car has the latest headlamps which do the same, unfortunately Citroën don't produce spares so when Kathys headlamp got cracked in a car park and became a kettle on the first wet day in August, it was off the road until a week ago.

In 8 days in France I didn't see a single one. It's cup holders cannot get a cup in unless you spill the coffee, the front pillars (2)obscure all vision when going round roundabouts, the central console is so big you can't relax your legs on a long journey, the charging media USB socket for phone connection is in a central drawer only big enough for a Nokia 3310, if you run the cable out, the drawer constantly opens and sticks in your left arm. There is no headlight up and down control, the LED headlights are set too high and almost everyone flashes you. The car is undriveable in ice or snow as there is no way to turn off the 279*approx safety settings installed. Even taking it approx way from flood water resulted in the car almost shutting down due to 1"of water. Park it on a slope and the oil danger light comes on. 

....and then there's the AdBlue warning that will completely shut the car down if you run out.....just to keep the Eurocrats happy.

It also only does 40mpg, twin turbo lag cuts in tomorrow,  and it goes through tyres like Lewis Hamilton.

But it's pretty.

 

 

Edited to add, sport mode button failed at 3 weeks, winter mode button failed at the first frost. Winter mode button just puts a frost sign on the dash.

 

14 hours ago, matty40s said:

No, its handling is like a whale, you never feel like you are in charge of the car other than on a long straight road. Hit a bend and the suspension is like one of the old British Rail APT trains, you aren't sure what is happening and you certainly ain't sure the car is going the same way that you are steering. It has 3 glass panels with blinds in the roof, but no sun roof. Rear seat courtesy lights only work when the engine is running, crap when you are trying to find bags in the back in the dark. 

The rear window is designed to fit in with the cars sleek lines, the top bar at the rear is directly in the centre of vision of the driver, meaning the rear view mirror picks up car wheels, or sky. The rear wiper has a radius of about 2cm, letting you see the wheels of following cars in the rain.

The car has a clever warning light system that shows you an orange warning light if there is a car to your left or right, the light is situated in the wing mirror. If you look in the wing mirror you generally see the vehicle and not the orange light in my experience.

 

edited to add - but its pretty...

 

Welcome to the world of marketing led design, where engineers take a back seat 😣

 

 

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Just to update the thread, looks like I could have found an answer for the windlass.

 

On 15/10/2018 at 13:32, bizzard said:

I doubt if it was used for turning anything stiff or heavy as I'd reckon that long bolt through the handle would bend and/or as well as also distort the flat strip frame.

 

I was at Waddingtons wharf at Swinton at the weekend and saw this in a pile of old barge stuff (top right in the photo, just above a bollard)

It was for operating BACAT winches, which HATFIELD had been fitted with at one time.

 

On 15/10/2018 at 13:49, billh said:

Has Hatfield had or still has any hand winches for bringing  the Tom Puddings into line? Could be for operating those. There used to be small winches fitted to the various designs of BWB push tugs and certain small dredgers which used a similar sized device, though I haven't seen a variable throw one before, I can see that  a high speed small throw would be handy to take up a lot of slack in the cables  and a long throw for final tightening.

Bill

Almost spot on Bill, apparently those BACAT winches were very low geared, so this would have been ideal.

So, looks like mystery solved, thanks for the replies...

 

 

IMG_0249.JPG

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