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When do you run your engine?


dor

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Whenever I need to within the permitted times, generally in one go rather than splitting it throughout the day.

 

And so it never bothers me when other people chose to run theirs. There seems to be a lot of people lately with super sensitive hearing or a very low tolerance threshold.

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4 hours ago, rawsondsr said:

Small battery bank, high electricity usage, knackered batterys, hot water, just a few reasons i can think of

Not living like a caveman comes to mind. As a liveaboard I fully expect people who live in houses to use electricity and I also fully expect them to understand that I will be using it. My battery bank is charged every day whatever the useage to keep the batteries in reasonable condition, much of this is often but not always done between six and 8 pm because suprise suprise I tend to put charging on when batteries need it rather than when they are full and can alos have travel power running for other chores, this leaves batteries full or nearly at 8pm. On vms I am afraid engine running is inevitable. My engine with hospital silencer is very quiet as with most unless its some old knacker from the 1930s.

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I try and avoid mooring near anything likely to run its engine antisocially , obviously residential with no solar panels, hire boats  ( likely to have electric kettle and charged for diesel used) anything that hasn't moved since last time I came by,  I recon you could do a spreadsheet.

what amuses me is engines running doors shut sun splitting cobbles type days where they are inside watching daytime tv. The boats usually called new beginnings or new dawn , or some such ,  about 18 months old.  Should have bought a flat.

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I've gotten into the habit of running my engine every time I move.

And I move whenever I want to, regardless of time of day or year.

It matters not a jot to me whether I'm moving through ice, rain, snow, sunlight or moonlight.

I have a licence, insurance and a safety certificate, I also have a home mooring ……. it's just the kind of rebel I am! -_-

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3 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

And the rules allow us to do so between 8am and 8pm.

 

No they don't. Do you need me to quote the rule that says otherwise?

 

I'll point it out anyway. Licence condition 7.6 says you must not do anything to make a pain in the arse of yourself to other boaters, whatever the time of day or night. (I paraphrase it!)

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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17 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

No they don't. Do you need me to quote the rule that says otherwise?

 

I'll point it out anyway. Licence condition 7.6 says you must not do anything to make a pain in the arse of yourself to other boaters, whatever the time of day or night. (I paraphrase it!)

 

I don’t think “damage and nuisance” mean what you think they do, in 7.6.

 

Schedule 5, 4a) & 4b) seem to differentiate between “damage and nuisance”, and running the engine or generator. Otherwise, why have a specific heading for generating equipment. 4b) appears to explicitly allow generation between 8am and 8pm, suggestingbthat it would inconsiderate to run between 8pm and 8am.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I don’t think “damage and nuisance” mean what you think they do, in 7.6.

 

 

7.6 doesn't say “damage and nuisance” if you read it carefully.

 

Its "damage OR nuisance". So either is a contravention. 

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9 hours ago, dor said:

Moored up for the last couple of nights on a 48hr mooring, one boat in front of me, one behind.  OK so we all need to run our engines for a bit to recharge batteries, and I would normally run mine for an hour or two in the afternoon.  Both these other boats started their engines just after eight am and ran them for at least a couple of hours, followed by another couple of hours between six pm and eight pm.

 

Putting aside the issue of needing to run your engine for four hours or more, if you are going to stay on a visitor mooring, isn't it a bit more reasonable to pick a time during the day, when it is likely to be less of an irritation to your neighbours?

I agree with you. Whilst as we know, it is “legal” to run engines from 8 to 8, there are other considerations such as being considerate and neighbourly. If you start at 8am, chances are some people will still be in bed asleep, dozing or generally relaxing. Especially on a pissing-with-rain day. Similarly by early evening folk want to relax with a bit of peace. So when I do need to run our very quiet hospital-silenced Beta43 whilst moored (which isn’t often) I would choose say 10am or later and try to be finished by 6pm or earlier (and no, I don’t mean running the engine throughout that period!) Running engines between 8am and 10am, and 6pm and 8pm maximises the probability of neighbouring boats being occupied and thus disturbed. Selfish and inconsiderate.

 

Yesteday we moored at Penkridge around 5pm. By 6pm the rather noisy next boat ran her engines until just before 8. Quite legal, but it was a nuisance as the constant rumbling could be heard and felt even with me at the other end of the boat and with the telly on. The next morning she started her engine shortly after 8am - so we might as well get up, I suppose! (even though it was windy and raining). Anyway, we set off for Gt Haywood and moored behind an unoccupied boat with curtains drawn - a suspected dumper. But no, around 6pm they returned and shortly after, ran their engine until 8pm. It was a fairly quiet engine but still I could feel and hear the rumble with the telly on.

 

So both boats were compliant with the “law” but both caused us considerable nuisance.

 

We decided to stay put today and at about 10:30 I thought I would run our nearly silent engine, which I did for about 1/2 hr. We have a big alternator and that chucks a lot of AH into the batteries in a short time. I see no need to fully charge the batteries in the knowledge that the next day, we will do a full day’s cruise and thus fully charge the batteries.

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Haven't had to run my engine for charging since I got solar panels last year (except when I had no choice but to moor under a huge tree for a week- and then it was only for an hour middle of the day). Have occasionally had noisey engines being run next door but usually just go out for a walk or sit at the other end of the boat. Nice thing about a boat is you can usually always move somewhere else if the neighbours are annoying!

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

7.6 doesn't say “damage and nuisance” if you read it carefully.

 

Its "damage OR nuisance". So either is a contravention. 

It doesn't alter the fact that you could be complying with the requirements of Schedule 5) 4(b) whilst simultaneously breaching the requirements of 7.6 which doesn't really seem that logical. I would also suggest that 7.6 is so vaguely worded as to be virtually unenforceable without a definition of what would constitute some form of 'statutory nuisance'. As an example it could be argued (if you were a fisherman) that every time you cruise past someone who is fishing you are causing them a 'nuisance' to which you would reply 'But I need to move my boat', well people also need to charge their batteries and heat up the water.  If I light my fire it may well cause a nuisance to an asthma sufferer walking past past on the towpath (even if it isn't smoking), I however need to keep warm. 

 

Personally I try to keep my engine running to the hours when noise from other noise sources are at their greatest, so from 10am through to say 5.30pm in the hope that any noise nuisance will be lost amongst the other noise being made. Where possible I would try to avoid engine running outside of people's houses but sometimes it's unavoidable (currently in Birmingham) so if possible I'll try to point the exhaust away from their properties (not always possible). The bottom line is that if someone is sensitive to noise, nothing you do will make the slightest difference, they will still consider it to be a nuisance. When you have someone who is relatively insensitive to noise (me) they aren't going to be bothered one way or the other (unless you run your engine around about midnight and are not moving)

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23 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Boat moored on the vm behind me for the last seven weeks runs his engine every night when he gets back from the pub, usually for a couple of hours starting at roughly 10.45pm.

 

Somehow this seems better than starting the engine and leaving the boat for others to listen to it while her goes to the pub.... 

 

Not sure why it does, but it does.

 

Anyway getting back to the 'rules' argument, NONE of the T&Cs are enforceable anyway. Neither the 8pm to 8am engine running ban, or the 'don't be a dick' condition 7.6.

 

 

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If he spent some of the pub money on a new set of batteries he wouldn't have to run his engine all the time.

CRT have been informed but apparently he has broken down. Doesn't seem to be doing much to sort himself out, got a feeling he is here for the winter.

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11 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I agree with you. Whilst as we know, it is “legal” to run engines from 8 to 8, there are other considerations such as being considerate and neighbourly. If you start at 8am, chances are some people will still be in bed asleep, dozing or generally relaxing. Especially on a pissing-with-rain day. Similarly by early evening folk want to relax with a bit of peace. So when I do need to run our very quiet hospital-silenced Beta43 whilst moored (which isn’t often) I would choose say 10am or later and try to be finished by 6pm or earlier (and no, I don’t mean running the engine throughout that period!) Running engines between 8am and 10am, and 6pm and 8pm maximises the probability of neighbouring boats being occupied and thus disturbed. Selfish and inconsiderate.

 

 

Fully agree.

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12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

7.6 doesn't say “damage and nuisance” if you read it carefully.

 

Its "damage OR nuisance". So either is a contravention. 

Sorry.... I don't think "nuisance" means what you think it means in 7.6..... :)

 

There is the stuff that you and I call a nuisance, in everyday speech, and there is the stuff that the law calls a nuisance, and they seem to be very different......

 

I would agree that running your engine at some times between 8am and 8pm could be considered inconsiderate, depending on the circumstances, and I definitely try to be considerate :)

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33 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Sorry.... I don't think "nuisance" means what you think it means in 7.6..... :)

 

There is the stuff that you and I call a nuisance, in everyday speech, and there is the stuff that the law calls a nuisance, and they seem to be very different......

 

I would agree that running your engine at some times between 8am and 8pm could be considered inconsiderate, depending on the circumstances, and I definitely try to be considerate :)

I would think running it at 11pm for 2 hrs is a nuisance.

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If you need 4 hours a day then I would suggest that 2 hours in the morning and 2 at night is the best way to go, especially if you have solar this time of the year, as you may not need those evening hours if you get a good day.

If I stop on 48 hr moorings I need to run my engine sometime after my first night moored.

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12 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

It doesn't alter the fact that you could be complying with the requirements of Schedule 5) 4(b) whilst simultaneously breaching the requirements of 7.6 which doesn't really seem that logical. I would also suggest that 7.6 is so vaguely worded as to be virtually unenforceable without a definition of what would constitute some form of 'statutory nuisance'. As an example it could be argued (if you were a fisherman) that every time you cruise past someone who is fishing you are causing them a 'nuisance' to which you would reply 'But I need to move my boat', well people also need to charge their batteries and heat up the water.  If I light my fire it may well cause a nuisance to an asthma sufferer walking past past on the towpath (even if it isn't smoking), I however need to keep warm. 

 

Personally I try to keep my engine running to the hours when noise from other noise sources are at their greatest, so from 10am through to say 5.30pm in the hope that any noise nuisance will be lost amongst the other noise being made. Where possible I would try to avoid engine running outside of people's houses but sometimes it's unavoidable (currently in Birmingham) so if possible I'll try to point the exhaust away from their properties (not always possible). The bottom line is that if someone is sensitive to noise, nothing you do will make the slightest difference, they will still consider it to be a nuisance. When you have someone who is relatively insensitive to noise (me) they aren't going to be bothered one way or the other (unless you run your engine around about midnight and are not moving)

The licence conditions don't need to define nuisance and there is a mountain of case law which more than adequately defines it for all different types of nuisance.  In case of engines running, the forms of nuisance would most likely be noise or odours.  The determination of whether there is a nuisance from a running engine would initially lie with an officer from the council who would 'witness' the nuisance from the home of the complainant, and could then serve notice to the source of the nuisance to abate the nuisance.  The difficulty comes with boats in that the nuisance could be abated at any point by moving the boat to a new location, thus creating a new nuisance in that location. 

 

I suppose it's possible that CRT could try and enforce against a boater who they have received numerous complaints about.  I'm not sure what sanctions they have available though.  Can they fine the boater?  The definitely can't refuse to renew the licence.

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