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Some thoughts on fire extinguishers.


yabasayo

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I once gave a tiny fire on a bit of cloth in a bungalow loft a quick blast (literally a second) with a dry powder extinguisher. It did the job, but filled the entire roofspace and I could barely see. I decided not to try that again. My blowtorch simply doesn't go into roofs any longer.

 

For my work, I have a contract with Chubb to supply extinguishers that comply with the requirements of my public liability insurance (PLI). I leave it up to them to tell me what I need and they come to service them once a year. This year, they took away the two DP extinguishers they'd supplied and replaced them with one CO2 and one foam one.

 

The lady told me they'd stopped recommending DP for domestic use as it was so messy and also corrosive to certain materials if left on them after discharge. The new ones are larger than the old DPs and a nuisance to keep in the van, but I'm nevertheless reassured by having them. They go everywhere the blowtorch goes.

 

Our boat has three small DP units and they're going to be replaced soon. I'm still undecided about what to fit.

 

Incidentally, off topic, but I'd urge all tradesmen who use any naked flames to look VERY closely at their PLI as it's almost impossible to fully comply with the conditions for the use of them. From the bitter experience of one of my family, if you set fire to something on a job and haven't fully complied, you WON'T be covered.

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On 08/10/2018 at 18:45, MJG said:

You did suggest swapping dry powder extinguishers to a different type including water.

 

I asked how somebody would fight a fire which is electrical in origin with water, given it was possible such a fire could occur on a boat.

 

So what I'm going on about is I think your suggestion in your OP is not sound. I think you need to re read my original post again, more carefully.

 

Your latter paragraph is of course just common sense but none the less the term 'electrical fire' is used very commonly in common parlance.

 

 

 

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On 08/10/2018 at 10:04, MJG said:

Correct. That is one method.

 

But you suggested swapping for water OR CO2 in your original post (which I now see you have edited).

 

Water would not be suitable for certain fires on a boat. (Or indeed  certain fires anywhere in fact).

Actually my original post that you are misquoting read and/or, not or.

As I said, read it again but more carefully.

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55 minutes ago, yabasayo said:

Actually my original post that you are misquoting read and/or, not or.

As I said, read it again but more carefully.

Yes, I was emphasising the OR because that meant you were suggesting water (which is what you said before you edited) as an alternative to CO2 when in fact water would't be suitable for an electrical fire on a boat.

 

You should read my posts more carefully.

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37 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Mostly true, but Water Mist extinguishers are cleared for use up to 1000v and have passed the 35kv dielectric test.

Yes, the clue is possibly in the name.

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On 11/10/2018 at 10:27, MJG said:

Yes, I was emphasising the OR because that meant you were suggesting water (which is what you said before you edited) as an alternative to CO2 when in fact water would't be suitable for an electrical fire on a boat.

 

You should read my posts more carefully.

This a silly conversation. If it amuses you to misquote my post then argue against that misquote, I cant help you.

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32 minutes ago, yabasayo said:

This a silly conversation. If it amuses you to misquote my post then argue against that misquote, I cant help you.

I didn't misquote it. If you cant see that I cant help you.

 

I quoted exactly as you originally posted it. That is what I responded to. You then edited it. It is all there to see so the only silliness here is you denying it.

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On 15/10/2018 at 11:31, MJG said:

I didn't misquote it. If you cant see that I cant help you.

 

I quoted exactly as you originally posted it. That is what I responded to. You then edited it. It is all there to see so the only silliness here is you denying it.

I refer you to post #2 of this thread in which you copy my original post which correctly contains this " CO2 and/or water" 

I also refer you to your post # 28 in which you quote ? me as saying 'water OR CO2' the bold letters being your addition.

Explain how that is an exact quote. This is like arguing with a cabbage.

Have you seen this: Eats shoots and leaves. Eats, shoots and leaves. The first is a rabbit the second is a cowboy.

My edit ( a few minutes later) was simply to add the word foam which I has missed, to read CO2 and/or foam-water

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On 07/10/2018 at 23:16, MJG said:

I would strongly recommend  replacing any dry powder extinguishers for internal use with CO2 and/or water as I have done in all my boats over many years.

This is what your original post said.

 

I have copied it from my quote of it.

 

The bit highlighted means you were recommending CO2 or water extinguishers as an alternative to dry powder. As I pointed out water is not suitable for fighting an electrical fire on a boat or anywhere else.

 

For some reason you seem fixated on trying to deny something that is in plain sight. You also seem intent on arguing with me rather than defending the original suggestion that dry powder is not recommended despite several people in thread saying there is no problem with them and even one user pointing out they had used one 'in anger' only days before your original post with no dire effects at all.

 

Perhaps you would be better trying to clarify why you think they are such a problem.

 

This is a screen grab of the post in question.

 

 

My quote.PNG

Edited by MJG
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On 08/10/2018 at 09:19, yabasayo said:

I would respectively disagree with your assertion. Apart from big explosions, all large fires start as small fires. The guidance is if you can safely tackle the fire with your extinguisher while the fire is small then do so.

Who issues that guidance and where is it published?

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On 08/10/2018 at 16:10, yabasayo said:

No idea what you are going on about. Of course I wouldn't use water on an electrical fire and I have never suggested to do so.

Electrical fire is actually a misnomer as electricity doesn't burn. An electrical fault can be the source of ignition but the fire itself can be anything flammable, most likely plastic insulation initially.

Err??
You have suggested using AFFF, and funnily enough that is AQUEOUS (water!!) foam.
And whilst electricity might not burn, it starts fires and doesn't disappear when the fire is raging.
 

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On 15/10/2018 at 11:31, MJG said:

I didn't misquote it. If you ...

 

3 hours ago, yabasayo said:

I refer you to post #2 of...

 

3 hours ago, MJG said:

This is what your original post said...

 

Guys, guys, c'mon - there's a week between the first of the posts above and the rekindling of the argument today.  Anyone else would have let it go by now.  Either go outside and sort it like silly, pissed "men", have the good grace to give the rest of us a break and continue your argument over PM, or shock us all and man up and let it go!  Now, let's see who's the silliest silly billy...

  • Greenie 3
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1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

 

 

Guys, guys, c'mon - there's a week between the first of the posts above and the rekindling of the argument today.  Anyone else would have let it go by now.  Either go outside and sort it like silly, pissed "men", have the good grace to give the rest of us a break and continue your argument over PM, or shock us all and man up and let it go!  Now, let's see who's the silliest silly billy...

If this bothers you so much just ignore it? Problem solved.

 

 Dont know why it was reserected either but I'm presuming the op only has intermittent internet access.

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2 minutes ago, MJG said:

If this bothers you so much just ignore it? Problem solved.

 

If you were in the Virtual Pub arguing about politics, or religion, that would be a more reasonable suggestion.  However, your pissing contest is in the middle of an otherwise sensible thread which might just help keep us all safer.

6 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Now, let's see who's the silliest silly billy...

You appear to have won that contest... although I suspect that, if there is one, you may yet have to share the prize.

 

Anyway, be a sport and at least think about it - i suspect you already know you're not going to get anywhere. :)

 

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11 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

If you were in the Virtual Pub arguing about politics, or religion, that would be a more reasonable suggestion.  However, your pissing contest is in the middle of an otherwise sensible thread which might just help keep us all safer.

You appear to have won that contest... although I suspect that, if there is one, you may yet have to share the prize.

 

Anyway, be a sport and at least think about it - i suspect you already know you're not going to get anywhere. :)

 

The usual way of trying to put out a fire is normally not to pour petrol on it, (to use an apt. anology). So maybe think about that ?

 

But actually yes you are correct I think in this instance, I can't help him see the error of his ways any longer.

Edited by MJG
Appalling gramar
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1 minute ago, MJG said:

The usual way of trying to put out a fire is normally not to pour petrol on it, (to use an apt. anology). So maybe think about that ?

 

But actually yes you are correct I think in this instance, I can't help him see the error of his ways any longer.

Yeah, ok. :)

I don't know, you Jack Russell's! Once you get your teeth into something...  ;) :D

 

 

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When I worked at Aldermaston we did a fire training course where we got to play with lots of different fire extinguishers. We saw what happens if you use water on liquid fires (very impressive and very scary) and also the serious problem with CO2 extinguishers if you stupidly hold the horn when using them.

 

He also threw lit cigarette butts into a bucket of petrol and one into a bucket of diesel.

 

The guy there said that frankly you use an extinguisher to try to make an exit route - you do not attempt to fight the fire if its anything much more than a chip pan or a waste paper bin.

Edited by StephenA
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