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Passing of moored boats on the river


Matthew77

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Sometimes is hard to make progress in a cruiser without creating a fair bit of wake.

 

We often cruise with our engines in tick over but in gear and still get accused of going to fast. Wedding cake owner can't win. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by BeetBee
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1 hour ago, BeetBee said:

Sometimes is hard to make progress in a cruiser without creating a fair bit of wake.

 

We often cruise with our engines in tick over but in gear and still get accused of going to fast. Wedding cake owner can't win. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome Bee T Bee.

We are back moored next to you now - how were the carp whilst we were away ?

 

I have sent you a PM - don't know with only 2 posts you are allowed to get them.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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10 hours ago, BeetBee said:

Sometimes is hard to make progress in a cruiser without creating a fair bit of wake.

 

We often cruise with our engines in tick over but in gear and still get accused of going to fast. Wedding cake owner can't win. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect you are not the norm in cruising at tickover though.  On the Thames if I do the speed limit of 5mph the big cruisers still go past like I am standing still, which must be at least 8mph.  I assume that is not tickover, as they seem to be able to enter locks slowly enough.  Sticking to the speed limit would I think be the first step in reducing wake!

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12 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I suspect you are not the norm in cruising at tickover though.  On the Thames if I do the speed limit of 5mph the big cruisers still go past like I am standing still, which must be at least 8mph.  I assume that is not tickover, as they seem to be able to enter locks slowly enough.  Sticking to the speed limit would I think be the first step in reducing wake!

yeah, but  ..............................  sticking to the speed limit doesn't allow the master of the ship to enjoy his asset, which can only be done by beating everybody else to the next lock.   Such *ssholes have no time or inclination to enjoy the peaceful environment, so why do they choose the Thames as their cruising place?    

Edited by Murflynn
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3 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

yeah, but  ..............................  sticking to the speed limit doesn't allow the master of the ship to enjoy his asset, which can only be done by beating everybody else to the next lock.   Such *ssholes have no time or inclination to enjoy the peaceful environment, so why do they choose the Thames as their cruising place?    

Same reason that the tin slugs do with their equally unsuitable boats?

  • Greenie 1
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12 hours ago, Murflynn said:

I will never understand why folks go to the Boat Show, buy an over-powered wedding cake boat designed to race from one marina to another in the Med or the Caribbean, and then cruise it on the Thames.  There seems to be a shortage of imagination in the design of suitable river cruisers,

 

You’re missing the fact that these people are ‘buying the dream’. Even though they only ever thrash up and down between Teddington and Windsor, they *could*, should they decide to, take off to the med. 

 

I agree with you though for people who want a boat specifically for comfortable river cruising, there is very little available. A nice 1950s carvel built broads cruiser might be a good option. 

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18 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I suspect you are not the norm in cruising at tickover though.  On the Thames if I do the speed limit of 5mph the big cruisers still go past like I am standing still, which must be at least 8mph.  I assume that is not tickover, as they seem to be able to enter locks slowly enough.  Sticking to the speed limit would I think be the first step in reducing wake!

But the speed limit isn't 5mph.

 

It is 4.9mph SOG. 

 

"Byelaw 27, maximum speed: The master shall not navigate a power-driven vessel at a speed over the bed of the river greater than 8 kilometres an hour"

 

The problem with SOG on the water is that your speed through the water and therefore your wash, will be different depending on which way you are travelling in relation to the current or tide. At 4.3 kts SOG you might be doing 5 or 6 kts TTW [Through the Water] going upstream in normal conditions, while you might be doing 8kts SOG going downstream at 4kts TTW when yellow boards are displayed. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

yeah, but  ..............................  sticking to the speed limit doesn't allow the master of the ship to enjoy his asset, which can only be done by beating everybody else to the next lock.   Such *ssholes have no time or inclination to enjoy the peaceful environment, so why do they choose the Thames as their cruising place?    

There are plenty of river boats available. But if someone doesn't want a river boat they wont buy one.

 

https://www.shetlandboats.co.uk/new-boats/

 

http://www.hainesmarine.co.uk/haines-32-sedan.php

 

http://www.vikingcruisers.com/our-boats1

 

http://www.silverlinemarine.co.uk/boat_building.html

 

https://www.norfolkboatsales.co.uk/used-boats/heritage-39-766.asp

 

https://www.watersidemarinesales.co.uk/boats-for-sale/starlight-770-go-west.html

 

https://www.marthamboats.com/services/new-boats

 

https://www.sheerlinemotorcruisers.com/sedan

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14 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

But the speed limit isn't 5mph.

 

It is 4.9mph SOG. 

 

"Byelaw 27, maximum speed: The master shall not navigate a power-driven vessel at a speed over the bed of the river greater than 8 kilometres an hour"

 

The problem with SOG on the water is that your speed through the water and therefore your wash, will be different depending on which way you are travelling in relation to the current or tide. At 4.3 kts SOG you might be doing 5 or 6 kts TTW [Through the Water] going upstream in normal conditions, while you might be doing 8kts SOG going downstream at 4kts TTW when yellow boards are displayed. 

 

Which is, of course, why on the Trent the speed limit is 8mph downstream and 6mph up stream.

 

Byelaw 14

No person shall navigate a power-driven vessel on any canal at a
speed over the bed of the canal greater than the following:-
(a) On the Trent Navigation (except between Averham Weir and
Newark Nether Lock and between Beeston Lock and Trent Lock,
Nottingham), a speed of 6 miles per hour upstream and 8 miles
per hour downstream.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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20 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

But the speed limit isn't 5mph.

 

It is 4.9mph SOG. 

 

"Byelaw 27, maximum speed: The master shall not navigate a power-driven vessel at a speed over the bed of the river greater than 8 kilometres an hour"

 

The problem with SOG on the water is that your speed through the water and therefore your wash, will be different depending on which way you are travelling in relation to the current or tide. At 4.3 kts SOG you might be doing 5 or 6 kts TTW [Through the Water] going upstream in normal conditions, while you might be doing 8kts SOG going downstream at 4kts TTW when yellow boards are displayed. 

 

It is 8kph, but for practical purposes it is 5mph, even the EA say that, and I don’t see why 0.1mph makes any difference.  Clearly your speed through the water will vary, but that has nothing to do with it, as that is not how the speed limit on any river is defined is it, some like the Severn and Avon have different upstream and downstream speeds, but the Thames does not.

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2 minutes ago, john6767 said:

It is 8kph, but for practical purposes it is 5mph, even the EA say that, and I don’t see why 0.1mph makes any difference.  Clearly your speed through the water will vary, but that has nothing to do with it, as that is not how the speed limit on any river is defined is it, some like the Severn and Avon have different upstream and downstream speeds, but the Thames does not.

Surely, by your own admission, that is incorrect.

 

The speed limits on the Severn, the Avon & the Trent are all defined as SoG not StW  (Speed over ground, NOT Speed through Water)

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12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Surely, by your own admission, that is incorrect.

 

The speed limits on the Severn, the Avon & the Trent are all defined as SoG not StW  (Speed over ground, NOT Speed through Water)

That is what I said, as far as I know the speed limit is always defined as over the ground, not through the water.  Are there any rivers that define it as through the water?  I would have thought most people would not have a way of measuring that, so over the ground is more practical, and why some rivers have the different upstream and downstream speeds over the ground.

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2 minutes ago, john6767 said:

That is what I said, as far as I know the speed limit is always defined as over the ground, not through the water.  Are there any rivers that define it as through the water?  I would have thought most people would not have a way of measuring that, so over the ground is more practical, and why some rivers have the different upstream and downstream speeds over the ground.

It is pure speculation, but considering that 'cruiser' boats generally have a log fitted, and they far outweigh the number of NBs on rivers, then I think that in fact the majority could measure speed thru the water. 

 

Yesterday I was heading downstream on a narrow, 4mph restricted, canalised section of the Trent, It had a 2mph flow, if we take that 4mph to represent SoG then I could only travel at 2mph, which does not give me sufficient water over the rudder to have steerage. I had a very slow boat in front of me, so I ended up zig-zagging from side to side (like F1 cars warming their tyres) to try and keep steerage, running on one engine and slipping into neutral and then back into gear.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is pure speculation, but considering that 'cruiser' boats generally have a log fitted, and they far outweigh the number of NBs on rivers, then I think that in fact the majority could measure speed thru the water. 

 

Our sailing boat has a log fitted, but it has never been callibrated, and I certainly wouldn't trust it as an accurate speed indicator.Perhaps others are better.

Edited by rusty69
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2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

But the speed limit isn't 5mph.

 

It is 4.9mph SOG.

8 kph if quoting in mph to one decimal place is 5.0 mph.

If you're gonna be unreasonably and pointlessly picky you should at least get it right

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On 03/10/2018 at 10:57, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

When I came off the Thames (where no-one slows down for anything) I was shocked at how prissy canal boaters can get about being moved (even slightly) by passing boats. 

Interestingly, up here on the Lancaster canal no-one seems to bother about slowing for moored boats and I have yet to see a "tickover" sticker.  This could be because there is a high percentage of grp cruiser owners who don't wet their pants every time the boat rocks a bit, but there are an awful lot of narrowboats on the lanky these days yet it doesn't seem to be an issue at all.  

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2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Our sailing boat has a log fitted, but it has never been callibrated, and I certainly wouldn't trust it as an accurate speed indicator.Perhaps others are better.

We have a log fitted and two GPS so we can get a pretty accurate picture of our SOG and our STW.

 

Pretty standard kit for most of the larger cruisers. So when you think they are speeding it could well be that they are at the speed limit and you are not going as quickly as you thought. 

 

Of course there are some who do speed but not all by a long way.

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59 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Interestingly, up here on the Lancaster canal no-one seems to bother about slowing for moored boats and I have yet to see a "tickover" sticker.  This could be because there is a high percentage of grp cruiser owners who don't wet their pants every time the boat rocks a bit, but there are an awful lot of narrowboats on the lanky these days yet it doesn't seem to be an issue at all.  

It is almost always the sewer tube owners who get agitated when a boat doesn't slow to tick over on the Fossditch. 

 

The rest of us just don't bother and carry on with what we were doing. 

 

Saxilby is a good spot for watching the sewer tube owners getting angry. There is a good long stretch before the entrance to the village and if boats don't slow down in time their bow wave is funneled through the bridge and past the moorings. The wave usually arrives 5-10 minutes before the boat.

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