More GRP Cruiser questions

[Phil Ambrose]

Our first boat was GRP and built in 1980, we lived on her and cruised her for 10 years, no sign of Osmosis . We were on the Broads where most boats are GRP, all our friends had GRP boats and I worked as a marine valet but can't say I've ever come across a boat with Osmosis.

In fact on the Broads there is a saying that any boat with Osmosis will outlive it's owner.

Phil 

 

[MichaelG]

Hi Sniffy the great, I owned several old GRP cruisers before buying a narrowboat and a Freeman 23 was one of them. If I was to go back to GRP I would happily get another Freeman 23. They are great little boats, really well made and the interior fit outs are in my opinion the best you will find for that marque of boat, and I think the 23 was the prettiest boat in the range. Handling wise you wont get better as they handle very well at low speed and stay on station well. Parts are still readily available from Sheridan Marine on Thames. You should be able to get a good example for less than 8k, a really perfect example for under 9k.  Osmossis is a known problem for GRP but probably overstated. All the GRP boats I have had were oldish, ie 1970s. I did have pre purchase surveys on all as insurance will be an issue without one, but none of them were found to have any significant issue with osmossis. If you dont intend to use the boat much in the winter my advice is to lay it up ashore for the winter. That gives the GRP  chance to dry out and slows down the onset of osmossis. Presuming its engine is original it will be petrol. Don't stress too much over that safety wise. As long as you have a bilge blower and use it and your fuel system is well maintained all should be well. Stick your face in the bilge before starting the engine first thing, if you have a fuel leak you will smell it. These boats have been around since the 1970s and they havent exploded yet. Whatever you decide to go for, good luck and happy boating.

[sniffy the great]

Naughty Cal, Wotever, Phil and MichaelG - thanks for your input; quite reassuring in a way.

 

Michael, I should correct a slip of the keyboard, the boat I looked at was a Freeman 24 but I guess what you say pretty much relates to that model as well. The owner is asking £7950. I wouldn’t say it’s perfect but it’s pretty good. Could do with a good clean out in the cabin but furnishings etc look fine. Shame there’s no washbasin in the toilet compartment but I guess that could be added.

 

Doug

[MichaelG]

Hi Doug, the 24 is the later model to the 23 and a much more modern sporty looking design. From memory I think the 24 has a semi planing hull rather than a displacement hull like the 23. The semi planning hull allows the boat to make faster progress but the pay off is that slow speed manouvering wont be as sure footed and the boat will be more affected at slow manouvering speeds by cross currents and wind, the boat sits slightly more on top of the  water than in it if you see what I mean.  I've looked at a few 24s before and they do look nice boats but I've never owned one. The build quality across the whole Freeman range is really good. They are very well thought of boats. I think the 24s also came with diesel engines as an option. Are you looking for narrowbeam as I think the 24s only came in wide beam? The price seems to be fair enough if its all in good order. Incidently if your not restricted to narrowbeam and you can stretch the budget to about double the price the Freeman 27s are really nice. Whatever you decide even though it would cost you a few hundred pounds I really would recommend an out of the water survey.  You may find trouble getting it insured without one due to its age, the insurance company want to know its not going to sink or burst into flames tomorrow. If the vendor objects to a survey, walk away.

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, MichaelG said:

Whatever you decide even though it would cost you a few hundred pounds I really would recommend an out of the water survey.  You may find trouble getting it insured without one due to its age, the insurance company want to know its not going to sink or burst into flames tomorrow. If the vendor objects to a survey, walk away.

Although third party only insurance will be available,and wouldn't require a survey.

[Mike Hurley]

In my opinion any boat under 10k is not worth a survey, especially a GRP one. No boat has ever sunk as a result of osmosis and why spend 10% of the value on things you can see yourself. Do you need someone to tell you that the water pump works, or it needs a new bilge pump and or batteries? Go for it and enjoy it.

[MichaelG]

32 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

In my opinion any boat under 10k is not worth a survey, especially a GRP one. No boat has ever sunk as a result of osmosis and why spend 10% of the value on things you can see yourself. Do you need someone to tell you that the water pump works, or it needs a new bilge pump and or batteries? Go for it and enjoy it.

Hi Doug, my impression from your posting is that you have little experience of boats, and you may be looking to buy your first one. So with respect to Mile Hurleys post you may not be best placed to know whether the water pump is working as it should, or it needs a new bilge pump or if the batteries are OK. A good surveyor will, if you are present during the survey give you a lot of good advice on the condition of the boat and how everything should work and be looked after. If you have a friend who knows boats that could take a look at it with you, thats the next best option, plus ofcourse free. Bear in mind ofcourse if you go the no survey/third party only insurance route, you risk losing your £8k investment if the boat is lost or stolen or damaged if you cant claim from someone elses insurance. 

[Paul HD]

If you can get the survey and lift out done for a reasonable cost, I think it is worth it.

 

If the survey comes up with a few niggling problems then you will be in a good position to knock off a few quid from the asking price.

 

On the other hand. If the hull is riddled with problems under the water line then that 500 has saved you £7500

[sniffy the great]

Good input everyone - much appreciated.

 

It’s true, I know sweet FA about boats so all the help is greatly valued; maybe I’m coming to this a bit late in life (70+ a fair bit?) but I’ve got the bug. I think a survey would be good. It’s not the thought of how much is at risk but more the reassurance that I could have a boat to enjoy and not angst about.

 

Doug

[sniffy the great]

I was talking to an old boy on the canal this morning and he’s been enjoying his Birchwood cruiser for 11 years, going up and down Caen Hill flight to Bath and to the Thames in the other direction. So, I’ve had a look at Birchwood boats and found a few such as this one:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=580814

It seems to tick a lot of boxes for someone (me) who’d like to get on the water in a vessel which I’d be happy to live on for a few weeks or more at a stretch but who finds a suitable canal boat a bit pricey. I’d be looking to use the boat mainly on the K&A and Thames.

 

Any opinions on this boat type and it’s suitability?

 

Thanks

 

Doug

 

[Naughty Cal]

45 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

I was talking to an old boy on the canal this morning and he’s been enjoying his Birchwood cruiser for 11 years, going up and down Caen Hill flight to Bath and to the Thames in the other direction. So, I’ve had a look at Birchwood boats and found a few such as this one:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=580814

It seems to tick a lot of boxes for someone (me) who’d like to get on the water in a vessel which I’d be happy to live on for a few weeks or more at a stretch but who finds a suitable canal boat a bit pricey. I’d be looking to use the boat mainly on the K&A and Thames.

 

Any opinions on this boat type and it’s suitability?

 

Thanks

 

Doug

 

A river cruiser will be better suited to cruising the Thames than a narrowboat.

 

The clue is in the name!

[Mike Hurley]

A Birchwood is a much nicer boat than a Freeman i think. My  mooring neighbour had a Birchwood when i had my Seamaster, nice boat but like all things it is down to your preference..

 

ETA, just read the ad, that boat has everything you need, has to be worth a look.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Mike Hurley

[sniffy the great]

35 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

A river cruiser will be better suited to cruising the Thames than a narrowboat.

 

The clue is in the name!

After spending a fair time asking questions here, I think I know that now?. My budget probably means I have to compromise because if I go for a narrowboat with what I can comfortably afford, I’m more likely to get a piece of crap. I managed to grasp the fact that a River boat is ment for rivers but if it gives me a reasonable experience on the canal as well, I’d rather do that than just give up and stick to walking. You see where I’m coming from?

 

Doug

18 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

A Birchwood is a much nicer boat than a Freeman i think. My  mooring neighbour had a Birchwood when i had my Seamaster, nice boat but like all things it is down to your preference..

 

ETA, just read the ad, that boat has everything you need, has to be worth a look.

Mike - that’s what I thought. Seems to offer a possible compromise between features and affordability.

 

Doug

[Mike Hurley]

32 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

After spending a fair time asking questions here, I think I know that now?. My budget probably means I have to compromise because if I go for a narrowboat with what I can comfortably afford, I’m more likely to get a piece of crap. I managed to grasp the fact that a River boat is ment for rivers but if it gives me a reasonable experience on the canal as well, I’d rather do that than just give up and stick to walking. You see where I’m coming from?

 

Doug

Mike - that’s what I thought. Seems to offer a possible compromise between features and affordability.

 

Doug

My cruiser, Seamaster 25, was moored at Saltford marina so i would use on the Avon and the K and A, no problems and great fun. The engine in that Birchwood would take you from Bristol and up the Severn to Sharpness, nice run if you take a pilot for the severn.

[Tony1]

I think if the budget won't stretch to a decent narrowboat (rather than a 'project') then a cruiser is still a great option for what you want to do. 

For me, wanting to liveaboard as a CC, and to moor frequently in the most isolated rural locations for up to two weeks at a time, and to be self sufficient for as long as possible, I have realised from the input of contributors here that a 30ft grp cruiser will probably involve too many compromises and workarounds, so I am currently planning for a narrowboat. 

Eg I want storage space for 500 litres or more of water, at least 50 litres of fuel (and lots more if I have diesel CH), at least 400 ah of batteries, lots of solar, a petrol genny with as much fuel as is legal to carry,  space for a very generous supply of coal if I have a stove, a secure place for my electric mountain bike (for shopping/exploring, and to move the car closer every week or so), a guitar and some other musical stuff, and other bits and bobs I can't even remember.

I'm  sure there would be ways of fitting all that in a 30ft cruiser to keep me off grid for a few weeks at a time, but I suspect the compromises would be complicated and a nuisance (eg finding places to store hundreds of litres of water in jerrycans or similar). 

If I were less antisocial, and I was looking at two week cruises in popular locations like the K+A and staying close to canal facilities etc, I would 100% be looking at grp cruisers, because they have an awful lot of plus points. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Eg I want storage space for 500 litres or more of water, at least 50 litres of fuel (and lots more if I have diesel CH), at least 400 ah of batteries, lots of solar, a petrol genny with as much fuel as is legal to carry,  space for a very generous supply of coal if I have a stove, a secure place for my electric mountain bike (for shopping/exploring, and to move the car closer every week or so), a guitar and some other musical stuff, and other bits and bobs I can't even remember.

In our 35 foot GRP cruiser we have

1000 litre water tank

2800 (two thousand eight hundred) litre diesel tank

6x 230Ah batteries

1x170w solar panel

Petrol generator (+ petrol)

My folding bike and trailer fit underneath one of the seats in the dining room

12v Fridge, 230v Freezer, Double-Cooker (gas) 4 ring hob (gas), Grill (gas), 230v microwave, diesel fired central heating, 2x toilets, 2x bathroom, 1x shower room, etc etc etc

 

You might need to go a bit wider than a 7ft narrowboat.

[Tony1]

Alan, that is an eye opener!

I may indeed still go widebeam, depending on how much work I opt to do after retirement, and where it is. 

There are some beautiful and very rural wide canals and rivers in the east midlands and Yorkshire,  and that might be enough for me. 

As things stand though, it does look as though I will need to stay a reasonable drive from manchester and liverpool for a few years. So a narrowbeam, although not an ideal living space, will allow me more rural cruising locations around the midlands and Cheshire areas. 

I think the sensible thing for me would be to try a narrowboat for a few years, do some cruising in the east, and then decide if the wide canals offer enough to go wide beam, and forgo the narrow canals completely. 

The dark (and wide) side may yet tempt me...

One thing I must say though, is that 50k doesn't look like it will get me as young or as nice a widebeam GRP as I had hoped it might. Most at that price seem rather more elderly than I would like- and although GRP hulls seem to last decades, the interiors do not fare half so well, many sporting unfeasibly lurid 70s interiors that look as if they will require significant budget to render them suitable for human habitation. 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

One thing I must say though, is that 50k doesn't look like it will get me as young or as nice a widebeam GRP as I had hoped it might.

I don't know your definition of 'young' or 'nice' but I'd certainly be able to find a 'more than acceptable' one for £10 less than that.

[Tony1]

I am starting to give more thought to my retirement situation, and to be honest the drive to Manchester or Liverpool from the wide eastern waterways is probably only another hour than it is from my planned cruising areas in the midlands. 

Realistically, if that drive was only once a fortnight, an extra hour on the road would be no trouble at all, and it might well be worth the extra living space I would get in a widebeam.

 

Something like this would meet my definition of 'nice'- and the onboard systems look suitable for longish cruises, plus the asking price is 10k under my budget.

It is certainly not young, but looks in pretty good nick, and a GRP hull from 1988 still has every chance of being in very good shape.

I guess one of the big question marks over boats of this age would be the longevity of the engine, and the cost of possibly replacing it at some point.  

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/alpha-craft-42/577522

 

 

[sniffy the great]

2 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

My cruiser, Seamaster 25, was moored at Saltford marina so i would use on the Avon and the K and A, no problems and great fun. The engine in that Birchwood would take you from Bristol and up the Severn to Sharpness, nice run if you take a pilot for the severn.

Mike  - I just looked at Seamasters as a matter of interest. Not many on Apollo Duck but those they had were from the sixties. Did they cease production that long ago?

 

What is it that you particularly liked about them?

 

 

Doug

[cereal tiller]

50 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

Mike  - I just looked at Seamasters as a matter of interest. Not many on Apollo Duck but those they had were from the sixties. Did they cease production that long ago?

 

What is it that you particularly liked about them?

 

 

Doug

Seamasters  were made up to the early eighties ,in Dunmow ,Essex.

[Naughty Cal]

8 hours ago, Tony1 said:

I am starting to give more thought to my retirement situation, and to be honest the drive to Manchester or Liverpool from the wide eastern waterways is probably only another hour than it is from my planned cruising areas in the midlands. 

Realistically, if that drive was only once a fortnight, an extra hour on the road would be no trouble at all, and it might well be worth the extra living space I would get in a widebeam.

 

Something like this would meet my definition of 'nice'- and the onboard systems look suitable for longish cruises, plus the asking price is 10k under my budget.

It is certainly not young, but looks in pretty good nick, and a GRP hull from 1988 still has every chance of being in very good shape.

I guess one of the big question marks over boats of this age would be the longevity of the engine, and the cost of possibly replacing it at some point.  

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/alpha-craft-42/577522

 

 

Those boats are huge. You really won't need something that big. Go and look at it if you don't believe me!

[Mike Hurley]

7 hours ago, sniffy the great said:

Mike  - I just looked at Seamasters as a matter of interest. Not many on Apollo Duck but those they had were from the sixties. Did they cease production that long ago?

 

What is it that you particularly liked about them?

 

 

Doug

I just liked the size and layout and the general look, mine was a 1968 with a Ford Watermota petrol inboard. It was my first boat, i bought it because i liked it, simple. I looked at diesel inboards but the noise and vibration put me off, and yes it did have osmosis, any boat of that age will and yet that boat is still afloat 18 years after i sold it. Never had problems getting fuel, arrive at the boat with 2x 20 litre cans, Bradford on Avon had a fuel station near the cut, phone apps will tell you where they all are. The more i look at that Birchwood you linked, the more i like it. If i was looking for a GRP i would be on that a bit quick. 

[Naughty Cal]

7 hours ago, cereal tiller said:

Seamasters  were made up to the early eighties ,in Dunmow ,Essex.

You can still buy a modern version of the Sea Master.

 

Made by Viking now.

http://www.vikingcruisers.com/wide-beam1

[Momac]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

1000 litre water tank

2800 (two thousand eight hundred) litre diesel tank

Why so large ?

I am guessing you don't use the 2800litre diesel capacity . My 33ft boat has in total 640 litres diesel tanks which would last me a whole year at river speeds.