More GRP Cruiser questions

[cereal tiller]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But just remember that it is illegal to store more than 30 litres 'in cans' (with the max of 20 litres in a metal can and 10 litres in plastic cans).

 

A boat with a petrol inboard engine will have a 'proper' built in, 'inboard tank' and is not covered by the regulations. A boat with an inboard tank would normally have a tank of several 100 litres so will not be looking for petrol every day.

 

Another 'difficulty' is the BSS which is much (rightly so) more demanding than a BSS on a diesel engine boat.

 

Have seen Built in Petrol Tanks , usually Stainless Steel ,for use with Outboard Motors ,unusual as Petrol does go Orff.

[Jim Riley]

Sourcing the fuel for the outboard has never been a major problem. I have  plastic 10ltr and a steel 15ltr  outboard fuel tanks stored in a locker. If one runs out I can just swap over the connectors. On my "home ground"  I know where all the fuel is available on roads adjacent to the cut, I use a small sack truck to transport the cans. When out and about on longer trips the garages show up on google maps. Very occasionally I've had to strap a tank on the Brompton carrier and cycle a mile for fuel, that doesn't take long. I know I use just under a litre an hour so I can plan ahead.

 

As for steering a small cruiser, my first was a 17.5ft grp, the second a dawncraft 22. Where is the problem, I did many miles in both, in all weathers, of course they are more twitchy than a 60ft narrowboat, just learn to steer!

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jim Riley

[sniffy the great]

I’ve got one of those familiar fridge magnets - you know the one that says “ I used to be indecisive - now I’m not sure”.

 

Since starting this topic, I now realise how true that is....?

 

But please keep the opinions coming - it’s fascinating reading and is all valuable to a complete beginner.

 

Doug

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

I’ve got one of those familiar fridge magnets - you know the one that says “ I used to be indecisive - now I’m not sure”.

 

Since starting this topic, I now realise how true that is....?

 

But please keep the opinions coming - it’s fascinating reading and is all valuable to a complete beginner.

 

Doug

Doug, you are going to get a pump out toilet as well arent you.....and an ecofan ........and a smartgauge?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

Doug, you are going to get a pump out toilet as well arent you.....and an ecofan ........and a smartgauge?

Don't confuse the poor guy -

he needs a cassette toilet and a BMV702,

or,

Maybe a composting toilet and an ammeter, or, 

…………………………………………………?

 

 

[LadyG]

I'd like a swan pedalo as my tender.  Is this part of my virtual canal life?

[cereal tiller]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'd like a swan pedalo as my tender.  Is this part of my virtual canal life?

Have always secretly wanted one of those ,would have to have a Jetdrive and at least one Hundred BHP though!

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by cereal tiller

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Have always secretly wanted one of those ,would have to have a Jetdrive and at least one Hundred BHP though!

 

 

How about a duck tender, although it may suit Dr P better!

[cereal tiller]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

How about a duck tender, although it may suit Dr P better!

They took a sneaky Picture of me at the Duck show!

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

They took a sneaky Picture of me at the Duck show!

Cobblepot!

[Dr Bob]

15 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

How about a duck tender, although it may suit Dr P better!

EEEeeeeek!!

 

Dont like the green knob. Has he caught something?

[sniffy the great]

I see that while I haven’t been monitoring my own topic, things have got a little silly. ? (that’s the nearest I can find to a “stern face” emoji).

 

Anyway, I had a look at a GRP cruiser yesterday; a 1971 Freeman 23. It happened to be berthed only about 20 minutes away so worth a look. Had a half hour trip down the canal, I steered for most of the time, passed other boats and bridges without hitting anything so all good from that point of view; a bit more frisky than the narrow boats I’ve steered but certainly not a big issue.

 

Being totally ignorant, I’ve no idea if all the things the owner was telling me about are good or not but it’s just had the 4 year safety check and passed. I’m assuming that means something? Obviously it’s not a guarantee but can one assume it’s reasonably sound and functional from that?

 

Doug

[harrybsmith]

Passing the BSS has nothing to do with hull integrity etc, most of the regulations in it relate to the likelihood of it catching fire.  Certainly better than no BSS but by no means a guarantee its a good boat and

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, sniffy the great said:

but it’s just had the 4 year safety check and passed. I’m assuming that means something? Obviously it’s not a guarantee but can one assume it’s reasonably sound and functional from that?

NO - NO - NO

It does not mean it is 'sound', it simply means that it is unlikely to kill any passers-by, by exploding or bursting into flames.

The safety check (basically) ensures that the gas, fuel and electricity are not 'leaking' and are safely kept where they should be.

 

It is not a survey and it does not tell you that it will not sink, it does not tell you that the water system works, or that the lights, pumps etc work.

[sniffy the great]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

NO - NO - NO

It does not mean it is 'sound', it simply means that it is unlikely to kill any passers-by, by exploding or bursting into flames.

The safety check (basically) ensures that the gas, fuel and electricity are not 'leaking' and are safely kept where they should be.

 

It is not a survey and it does not tell you that it will not sink, it does not tell you that the water system works, or that the lights, pumps etc work.

Right. Point taken. Is it possible to suggest what a survey is likely to cost? I’m sure they vary enormously but presumably getting one of these out of the water to give it a good going over would be cheaper than for a narrow boat?

 

Doug

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, sniffy the great said:

Right. Point taken. Is it possible to suggest what a survey is likely to cost? I’m sure they vary enormously but presumably getting one of these out of the water to give it a good going over would be cheaper than for a narrow boat?

 

Doug

The answers to that question are gererally between £500 and £1000 including lift out and refloat I believe. 

[harrybsmith]

When I bought my GRP boat (Highbridge 32) I asked myself "what will a surveyor actually find that I don't know already" and opted to not have a survey. 

 

Touch wood all still OK!

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

Right. Point taken. Is it possible to suggest what a survey is likely to cost? I’m sure they vary enormously but presumably getting one of these out of the water to give it a good going over would be cheaper than for a narrow boat?

 

Doug

Ball park figure is £300 for the survey + lift in / out (or if you have a trailer you can DIY)

The survey cost will depend on what you want it to include (Hull, electrics, water, gas, engine, gearbox etc etc) or what your insurance company want it to include (if it is over 20 or 25 years old)

 

If you have a fairly 'simple' boat then the costs are lower.

 

With a 1971 boat the insurance company (if you are insuring it fully comp) are certainly going to want to be involved in specifying what they want tested.

If you are only going for 1/3rd party insurance then you don't need a survey at all (apart from your own peace of mind)

Edited October 6, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[sniffy the great]

2 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

When I bought my GRP boat (Highbridge 32) I asked myself "what will a surveyor actually find that I don't know already" and opted to not have a survey. 

 

Touch wood all still OK!

Well, I’ve worked out how to tell one end from the other - hopefully a surveyor would know more than a hat?

 

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Ball park figure is £300 for the survey + lift in / out (or if you have a trailer you can DIY)

The survey cost will depend on what you want it to include (Hull, electrics, water, gas, engine, gearbox etc etc) or what your insurance company want it to include (if it is over 20 or 25 years old)

 

If you have a fairly 'simple' boat then the costs are lower.

I don’t know if it’s “simple” or not but that brings me to another question. 1971 seems old for a vehicle. Is it considered so in the boat world? And do these boats (Freeman) have a reputation - good or bad?

 

Doug

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

 

 

I don’t know if it’s “simple” or not but that brings me to another question. 1971 seems old for a vehicle. Is it considered so in the boat world? And do these boats (Freeman) have a reputation - good or bad?

 

Doug

 

Yes 1971 is OLD.

But, in the 'early '70s Fibreglass was a new material and no one knew much about it, or its strength / weakness, therefore they produced the boat 2x or 3x as thick as we would today 'overkill' we would call it.

So yes - it should be fine.

 

The one problem that fibreglass boats suffer from is a pox called osmosis, this is where poorly mixed fibreglass / resin has left voids, long-story-short this can lead to a build up of a liquid that smells like vinegar, and can be seen on the surface of the boat as 'blisters', pop one of the blisters and you get the smelly liquid running out - and - in the worst case can cause structural failure. I have known a lot of boats with osmosis but have never seen one actually fall apart.

Do an internet search for osmosis and be prepared to be scared out of your wits - then talk to people who have actually owned fibreglass boats.

 

Edit for spulling mistooks

Edited October 6, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[sniffy the great]

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes 1971 is OLD.

But, in the 'early '70s Fibreglass was a new material and no one knew much about it, or its strength / weakness, therefore they produced the boat 2x or 3x as thick as we would today 'overkill' we would call it.

So yes - it should be fine.

 

The one problem that fibreglass boats suffer from is a pox called osmosis, this is where poorly mixed fibreglass / resin has left voids, long-story-short this can lead to a build up of a liquid that smells like vinegar, and can be seen on the surface of the boat as 'blisters', pop one of the blisters and you get the smelly liquid running out - and - in the worst case can cause structural failure. I have known a lot of boats with osmosis but have never seen one actually fall apart.

Do an internet search for osmosis and be prepared to be scared out of your wits - then talk to people who have actually owned fibreglass boats.

 

Edit for spulling mistooks

Thank you for your time - really useful stuff. I’m about to google the dreaded word but before I do, I’ve also heard of another dread word - “crazing”. Presumably a different hazard from osmosis?

 

Doug

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

Thank you for your time - really useful stuff. I’m about to google the dreaded word but before I do, I’ve also heard of another dread word - “crazing”. Presumably a different hazard from osmosis?

 

Doug

Yes - different.

Fibreglass can absorb water if the 'lay-up' is not perfect so a 'skin' of gel coat is added to seal the fibreglass, age and damage can 'craze' the gel coat.

It is virtually 'always' going to be found on a 45 year old boat.

 

You either live the aesthetics of a 'crazed' boat, paint it (then paint it again every year) or save up and buy a younger boat.

[sniffy the great]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes - different.

Fibreglass can absorb water if the 'lay-up' is not perfect so a 'skin' of gel coat is added to seal the fibreglass, age and damage can 'craze' the gel coat.

It is virtually 'always' going to be found on a 45 year old boat.

 

You either live the aesthetics of a 'crazed' boat, paint it (then paint it again every year) or save up and buy a younger boat.

Crazing is merely damaging to the aesthetics then? Not a threat to serviceability? And therefore, presumably quite obvious even to the untutored eye?

 

Doug

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, sniffy the great said:

Crazing is merely damaging to the aesthetics then? Not a threat to serviceability? And therefore, presumably quite obvious even to the untutored eye?

 

Doug

Any damage to the exterior gel coat can and will let water in which will lead to osmosis. 

 

With the age of boat you are looking at it willhave osmosis so I personally wouldn't worry about it.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, sniffy the great said:

Crazing is merely damaging to the aesthetics then? Not a threat to serviceability? And therefore, presumably quite obvious even to the untutored eye?

 

Doug

Yes, but the same can be said about osmosis. You will read dozens of scare stories about it but I bet you can’t find a single instance of a boat actually sinking from it.