Philip Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 Had a bit of a catastrophe with my Norman 24. I got up yesterday to find a pool of water saturating the carpet in the cabin and worse still, nearly 2 feet of water in the bilge, with water gushing in through a small hole in the fibreglass which had somehow developed over Thursday night. This wasn't a hole in the outer hull, but in the inner fibreglass layer around the engine bay, which was put in as additional strengthening to accommodate the inboard engine when built. So it wasn't an underwater object damaging the hull, but likely a stress fracture resulting from engine vibration. The carpet as a result is saturated and will need replacing, so can anyone please recommend a good floor covering? I'm not bothered about aesthetics, more about practicality, so I'm not particularly keen on using carpet again; looking at something more suited to getting wet (to a degree) and easy to clean from muddy boots etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 Astro turf, keep your boating green. Its water resistant too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain birdseye Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 We have just renewed our flooring with Vinyl planking from a well known DIY store. Its self adhesive and easy to cut and fit. Edges can be sealed with a colour matched sealant. Only time will tell how hard wearing it proves to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detling Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 So the water was originally behind the inner lining? If so where did it come from I doubt it was put there when the boat was built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, captain birdseye said: We have just renewed our flooring with Vinyl planking from a well known DIY store. Its self adhesive and easy to cut and fit. Edges can be sealed with a colour matched sealant. Only time will tell how hard wearing it proves to be I've just used this, although not from a well known DIY store. It's excellent - easy to fit and looks really good - but it ain't inexpensive and I doubt it would be good where there's potential movement. As a Narrowboat floor, perhaps, but a GRP cruiser? Vinyl flooring off a roll would seem a better choice and be much cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Posted September 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 44 minutes ago, Detling said: So the water was originally behind the inner lining? If so where did it come from I doubt it was put there when the boat was built. Thanks all. The water was coming in from the canal through the rubber diaphragm around the saildrive leg; this isn't intended as a watertight seal, the inner layer of fibreglass above it is what is meant to be watertight, but this is where the hole is. Norman put the inner layer in when built, all part of the engine bay housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 Rhino vinyl flooring is tough and hard-wearing. Comes in a variety of fake finishes. https://home.tarkett.co.uk/en_GB/category-uk_R01019-rhinofloor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal garfi Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Hello Phillip I tried to send you a pm but I don't know if I succeeded. Anyway, I think I'm right in presuming that you're the Phillip that we went with (in the old Norman 22) through the Audlem flight at the end of last month. If so, I hope you do get your boat sorted, waking up to a boat filled with water must have been very worrying! We had to cut our journey short at Nantwich, since the first lock at Hurleston was just too narrow to get our boat through. We got wedged in two attempts! Such is life. Sal and Barbie (Babs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) On 29/09/2018 at 15:10, Philip said: The water was coming in from the canal through the rubber diaphragm around the saildrive leg; this isn't intended as a watertight seal, Are you sure about this ? Do you really mean a 'saildrive' that hangs out thru the bottom of the boat, or an outdrive that goes thru the transom ? We have had a number of boats with outdrives and the rubber 'bellows' are designed to be watertight and do need changing regularly (we did them annually). I currently have a catamaran with twin engines / sail drives and they are (fortunately) watertight as they come up thru single skinned hulls. I think your original problem is with the seals (unless Norman did something very unusual). Saildrives are SUPPOSED to be watertight (as are outdrive seals/bellows) https://www.boats.com/reviews/all-about-saildrives/#.W8MMffZFzIU Saildrive leg (goes straight out thru the bottom of the boat and is the lowest point in the water below the keel) Edited October 14, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Are you sure about this ? Do you really mean a 'saildrive' that hangs out thru the bottom of the boat, or an outdrive that goes thru the transom ? We have had a number of boats with outdrives and the rubber 'bellows' are designed to be watertight and do need changing regularly (we did them annually). I currently have a catamaran with twin engines / sail drives and they are (fortunately) watertight as they come up thru single skinned hulls. I think your original problem is with the seals (unless Norman did something very unusual). Saildrives are SUPPOSED to be watertight (as are outdrive seals/bellows) https://www.boats.com/reviews/all-about-saildrives/#.W8MMffZFzIU Saildrive leg (goes straight out thru the bottom of the boat and is the lowest point in the water below the keel, no skeg and no prop protection and when considering it is probably 2 feet below the bottom of the boat not an ideal set up for a canal boat) This is a typical 'outdrive' installation I have seen on Norman boats Edited October 14, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I agree with Alan, the seal on a saildrive leg is designed to be water tight, in fact some use a double diaphragm with a water sensor between. If it really is a saildrive then the problem is not the leg seal but whoever fitted it did nothing to ensure the "trunk" between the hull and inner moulding was watertight - either that or ensured the saildrive sat on the hull rather than the inner lining. I would suggest a saildrive is the very last type f drive you would want on a canal boat, too much opportunity for damage to the prop, leg, or even the hull when the leg hits something solid - and you can't get at the prop without getting wet in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movin' on Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 B&Q carpet tiles are great we have used them for years as they are very tough and bitumen backed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: I would suggest a saildrive is the very last type f drive you would want on a canal boat, too much opportunity for damage to the prop, leg, or even the hull when the leg hits something solid - and you can't get at the prop without getting wet in most cases. This is our Cat out of the water (it is designed to 'take the hard' - hence the keels to sit down onto and protect the leg) Access to the leg and prop is totally impossible when in the water - unless you use scuba equipment (which we have to carry to remove lobster pot ropes etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I agree they are OK for sea boats with substantial keels in front of the leg not for a canal where a keel may ride over an object and the boat may then drop so the object is in line with the leg. Each to their own but I would not have a saildrive, even on a sea boat. I know how easily water can get into an outboard leg and see nothing much different on a saildrive apart from the fact its unlikely to have a clutch in the bottom of the leg but it will still have gears and bearings. However I still think the OP's problem is appalling fitting originally. The rubber seal is in the wrong place if water can get between the hull and inner lining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: IEach to their own but I would not have a saildrive, even on a sea boat. I know how easily water can get into an outboard leg and see nothing much different on a saildrive apart from the fact its unlikely to have a clutch in the bottom of the leg but it will still have gears and bearings. Saildrives are the norm on almost all new sailing yachts and have been for nearly 20 years. They should have their 'rubber seal' replaced every 5 years IIRC (ie that is what Volvo say) but very few people we knew did that. None of our circle of friends ever had an issue with their sail drives except one who's leg corroded away (twice) due to galvanic action...replace twice by the manufacturer...but that is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: However I still think the OP's problem is appalling fitting originally. The rubber seal is in the wrong place if water can get between the hull and inner lining. Agreed - maybe it is not a Norman installation but a later owners 'bodge' or Maybe the OP is using the wrong terminology and he means an outdrive (a bit better as it has some prop-protection, but it should not leak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 On 29/09/2018 at 15:31, cuthound said: Rhino vinyl flooring is tough and hard-wearing. Comes in a variety of fake finishes. https://home.tarkett.co.uk/en_GB/category-uk_R01019-rhinofloor Really good stuff, a nice soft feel and quite warm for a vinyl type flooring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Dr Bob said: Saildrives are the norm on almost all new sailing yachts and have been for nearly 20 years. They should have their 'rubber seal' replaced every 5 years IIRC (ie that is what Volvo say) but very few people we knew did that. None of our circle of friends ever had an issue with their sail drives except one who's leg corroded away (twice) due to galvanic action...replace twice by the manufacturer...but that is a different story. I am aware of that but have a horrible suspicion its more because its an easy job to just drop the whole assembly into the boat rather than the cost of supplying & fitting a shaft, gland & prop. 2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: Agreed - maybe it is not a Norman installation but a later owners 'bodge' or Maybe the OP is using the wrong terminology and he means an outdrive (a bit better as it has some prop-protection, but it should not leak) That is what I suspect - later bodge. From the way h describes the set-up I suspect it is a saildrive because I think the inner moulding would be hard against the transom or, more likely, simply not in that position at all unless the boat was originally outboard powered. Whichever it is it still looks like bodgy fitting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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