Lister sr2 gear probs

[galaxyranger]

I have a lister SR2 with hydraulic gear box.The gearbox was engaged in forward so I topped up the gearbox. I also put oil in what I believe  to be the reduction box . I couldn't find a dipstick  on the reduction box . Just a plunger. Similar to a dipstick but doesn't come out.

Now the reverse and neutral engage but not forward. 

I put oil where the tall brass bolt is on the reduction box.should I have done this?.

Any advice.

Regards

Galaxy ranget

[RLWP]

That sounds like the reduction box dipstick, just stuck

 

Initially, the gearbox was doing what it is supposed to - it failed into forward. There are a lot of ways that could happen, including lack of oil, so that all makes sense

 

If you can get reverse and neutral, you've got oil, the oil pump is working and the reverse band works too. Also the selector valve must be doing something

 

Either the forward clutch is stuck in neutral, or the cone has failed. What is the oil like in the gearbox?

 

Richard

Edited September 28, 2018 by RLWP

[galaxyranger]

I also thouight the reduction box dipstick was stuck, but it pulles out and then won't come any further also i cant see any marks on it, i suppose if it was stuck I wouldnt see the marks anyway. As far as the oil in the gearbox, i have just topped it up and not taken any out, would you suggest I let some oil out and check it?

could I  have put to much oil in the gearbox or too much or not enough in the reduction box,

thanx for you time

[Tony Brooks]

26 minutes ago, galaxyranger said:

I also thouight the reduction box dipstick was stuck, but it pulles out and then won't come any further also i cant see any marks on it, i suppose if it was stuck I wouldnt see the marks anyway. As far as the oil in the gearbox, i have just topped it up and not taken any out, would you suggest I let some oil out and check it?

could I  have put to much oil in the gearbox or too much or not enough in the reduction box,

thanx for you time

Richard asked "what oil did you put in the gearbox". This is important because it should NOT BE engine oil or ATF. Both may well cause lack of reverse or neutral problems. I agree with Richard it sounds more like an ahead clutch problem at present.

[galaxyranger]

I popped up to halfords the other day to get some oil . What it suggestsays in the manual. They didn't have any but suggested I use the gear oil they have.

Tommorow I shall go to Wilcot to get the correct  oI'll.  Drain the oil and replace

I don't know  the exact  oil I bought . I shall go to the boat in the morning and find out.

Thanx for the input

 

[bizzard]

When the engine is stopped does the gearbox go into forward gear, it should do.  Try a spanner or stilson on the propshaft and try and turn it, or open the weed box and try to turn the propeller.  Your gear outer cable may have come adrift and might not be pushing the gearbox operating lever fully forward or past neautral when the hand lever control if pushed fully forwards. Engine oil wouldn't harm it, there are no helically cut gears in those boxes which need higher pressure oil because of the extra teeth rub,   there are however helical gears in the reduction gear box.  Originally these gearboxes used engine oil, ''I have an ancient Lister manual that quotes it'' I reckon it was changed to hypoy gear oil which is thicker to improve oil pressure at low engine revs, although the oil pressure can be adjusted at the relief valve.

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, galaxyranger said:

I popped up to halfords the other day to get some oil . What it suggestsays in the manual. They didn't have any but suggested I use the gear oil they have.

Tommorow I shall go to Wilcot to get the correct  oI'll.  Drain the oil and replace

I don't know  the exact  oil I bought . I shall go to the boat in the morning and find out.

Thanx for the input

 

I bet the manual says SAE 80 gear oil and you were sold  SAE 70W90 or something like that. If so it should be fine, don't bother changing it. Once again:-

 

the box has no internal oil pressure when in ahead.

It uses oil pressure to get neutral and astern.

It uses s[ring force to get ahead gear

 

As Richard said, if you can get neutral and astern then oil pressure is not an issue. The symptoms point to a ahead clutch problem. This could be the ahead adjustment on the ahead lever under the top cover through to a missing ahead clutch lining.

 

[RLWP]

I'm more interested to know if what is in the gearbox is mostly oil or mostly water 

[john.k]

Hypoid gear oil is designed to make things slip......I would imagine it is completely unsuitable in any type of wet clutch.....the hypoid additive is also credited with attacking bronze in gearboxes......the evidence offered being it turns bronze black..............What I do know is that hypoid oils become actively corrosive when mixed with water and the steel gears are left idle for a period....Some modern car engine oils can also cause slip in wet clutches because of the "friction modifiers"......this is not advertising hype,it really works.....So ,I restrict myself to either HD diesel engine oil,tractor transmission oil,or a hydraulic oil of suitable grade......Modern oils are a minefield for old machines,many are completely unsuitable..........Use a high grade steam turbine oil of R&O spec and ISO 68 grade.

[bizzard]

12 minutes ago, john.k said:

Hypoid gear oil is designed to make things slip......I would imagine it is completely unsuitable in any type of wet clutch.....the hypoid additive is also credited with attacking bronze in gearboxes......the evidence offered being it turns bronze black..............What I do know is that hypoid oils become actively corrosive when mixed with water and the steel gears are left idle for a period....Some modern car engine oils can also cause slip in wet clutches because of the "friction modifiers"......this is not advertising hype,it really works.....So ,I restrict myself to either HD diesel engine oil,tractor transmission oil,or a hydraulic oil of suitable grade......Modern oils are a minefield for old machines,many are completely unsuitable..........Use a high grade steam turbine oil of R&O spec and ISO 68 grade.

Possibly the reason why Lister originally quoted engine oil for their LH150 gearboxes. I ran my old Harborough Marine boats LH150 on engine oil for a good while with no trouble at all, before changing to Hypoid because the later manuals started quoting Hypoid oil.

[galaxyranger]

Gear differential EP80/90 GL-5 is what I put in. Gona have a cuppa then have a look at prop shaft and levers

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, galaxyranger said:

Gear differential EP80/90 GL-5 is what I put in. Gona have a cuppa then have a look at prop shaft and levers

Also please do as  Richard advises and check the box for water inside. Personally I would expect it to be quickly emulsified to creamy color but who knows.

[galaxyranger]

The dipstick was indeed stuck. There was too much oil in the reduction box. I have emptied some out. Slighthe creamy Ness on surface. When engine is stopped the prop is engaged.

I have to leave my mooring by this weekend. If I could get away with changing oil after I move to my new spot . My priority is to move

Thanx for input

 Nothing like a bit of drama. A quick cuppa then start her up

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, galaxyranger said:

The dipstick was indeed stuck. There was too much oil in the reduction box. I have emptied some out. Slighthe creamy Ness on surface. When engine is stopped the prop is engaged.

I have to leave my mooring by this weekend. If I could get away with changing oil after I move to my new spot . My priority is to move

Thanx for input

 Nothing like a bit of drama. A quick cuppa then start her up

That is weird, it almost sounds as if the spool valve is leaking to the ahead clutch cylinder but thee is not a lot to wear in a spool valve unless an O ring has failed (no idea how many O rings are in the Lister valve - can't remember). It sounds as if oil pressure is holding the ahead clutch disengaged  when you select ahead rather than venting the oil so the springs push it into contact.

 

As for leaving your mooring if all else fails then at your own risk try removing all but a few tablespoons of oil from the GEARBOX. That should stop it building up any pressure so the ahead clutch should stay engaged (unless it is slipping when in gear) and then very gently move the minimum distance but ON NO ACCOUNT engage reverse. Hopefully there will be sufficient lubrication for the gearbox bearings and the oil pump so go very gently.

 

IF Biz or Richard have other ideas go with them.

[bizzard]

2 minutes ago, galaxyranger said:

The dipstick was indeed stuck. There was too much oil in the reduction box. I have emptied some out. Slighthe creamy Ness on surface. When engine is stopped the prop is engaged.

I have to leave my mooring by this weekend. If I could get away with changing oil after I move to my new spot . My priority is to move

Thanx for input

 Nothing like a bit of drama. A quick cuppa then start her up

Its possible that oil is being slowly transferred to the reduction gear from the main gearbox via a weak or worn rear oil seal,  If the oil in the box looks mucky or has water in it I would drain it out and flush it out with a 50/50 mix of engine oil and paraffin or diesel fuel, run engine gently whilst stationary changing from fore gear to reverse now and them for aout 10 minutes, drain it off and put fresh sae80/90 gear oil in. This can work wonders with those boxes.

[galaxyranger]

It's fixed.

I adjusted the cable to the gearbox. I noticed that the cable was pulling the lever

a long way over whilst in reverse but not that much in forward so I adjusted the toggle on the lever.I shall get her moved then apply the changes to the oil

Many thanxs

[bizzard]

Too much tea drinking galaxyranger. Get on with the job!!!.

2 minutes ago, galaxyranger said:

It's fixed.

I adjusted the cable to the gearbox. I noticed that the cable was pulling the lever

a long way over whilst in reverse but not that much in forward so I adjusted the toggle on the lever.I shall get her moved then apply the changes to the oil

Many thanxs

Ah!!! I thought it might be that, as I mentioned in my first post. I'd still flush it out though.

[RLWP]

Good work!