Nev Posted September 27, 2018 Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 Hi, I think I have introduced some air into my system and I could do with advice on how to bleed it to get the engine running on 2 cylinders. I have read through some old posts and I have done the same as this ...... dietaylor87 said: - we turned off the fuel lines as there was a tiny drip, but have opened them up again now. I think this is the problem. By closing the fuel valve from the tank, you made the fuel system on the engine a closed system. If you did that when the engine was warm, then as the fuel in the pipes cools it shrinks, and the pressure in the pipes drops. That turns the "tiny drip" from something that lets diesel out, into something that lets air bubbles in. Air bubbles in diesel pipes stop engines. To get the engine going again, you need to bleed the air out of the pipes, and to avoid a repeat, don't close the fuel valve, and preferably fix the leak. I don't know the details of bleeding an SL3, not hopefully someone else will be along with those soon. MP. ......The engine will start but I can feel the right hand cylinde exhaust is getting hot whereas the left hand is not. I’d like to have a go myself so any advice from the knowledgeable would be much appreciated. ( ...and yes I’ll fix the leak from the day tank !!) Thanks Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 27, 2018 Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, Nev said: Hi, I think I have introduced some air into my system and I could do with advice on how to bleed it to get the engine running on 2 cylinders. I have read through some old posts and I have done the same as this ...... dietaylor87 said: - we turned off the fuel lines as there was a tiny drip, but have opened them up again now. I think this is the problem. By closing the fuel valve from the tank, you made the fuel system on the engine a closed system. If you did that when the engine was warm, then as the fuel in the pipes cools it shrinks, and the pressure in the pipes drops. That turns the "tiny drip" from something that lets diesel out, into something that lets air bubbles in. Air bubbles in diesel pipes stop engines. To get the engine going again, you need to bleed the air out of the pipes, and to avoid a repeat, don't close the fuel valve, and preferably fix the leak. I don't know the details of bleeding an SL3, not hopefully someone else will be along with those soon. MP. ......The engine will start but I can feel the right hand cylinde exhaust is getting hot whereas the left hand is not. I’d like to have a go myself so any advice from the knowledgeable would be much appreciated. ( ...and yes I’ll fix the leak from the day tank !!) Thanks Nev Which engine are you actually talking about, an SL3 or CS2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted September 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 It’s a CS2 ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 27, 2018 Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, Nev said: It’s a CS2 ..... Ok, can you not crack open the main injector pipe on that cylinders injector to bleed air out while the engines running. The injector pumps may have bleeder screws on the side of them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted September 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just tried that and nothing is being pumped .... I have bled the pump with the screw and fuel is flowing. I am starting to think the pump had died/ has a fault. No idea what the internal workings of these pumps are and what can fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 27, 2018 Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 Could be a stuck fuel delivery valve, probaby located on top of each injector pump, just below the main delivery pipe to the injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted September 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 Thanks for keeping help coming. I guess that means taking the top “ connector” off the pump ....never had one of these apart before. Anything I should be aware of before I get the spanner’s out over the weekend ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 27, 2018 Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Nev said: Thanks for keeping help coming. I guess that means taking the top “ connector” off the pump ....never had one of these apart before. Anything I should be aware of before I get the spanner’s out over the weekend ? Try undoing the injector delivery pipe on the injector pump and turning the engine over. If pulses of fuel pump out the delivery valve beneath will be free. A photo of the pumps ect would be useful. If fuel does pump out it would mean a somehow blocked pipe to the injector or the injector itself jammed shut. Belay that last bit as you've already said that fuel does not spurt fro the pipe at the injector end, so injector probably ok. Blocked pipe. Can you get to the cam shaft on that engine to see if the injector pump piston is pumping up and down as the engine turns. Edited September 27, 2018 by bizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted September 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 I tried taking the injector pipe off the top of the pump and with the engine running there were no spurts of fuel, there was some air being pumped ( best description I can provide). I also took the pipe off and blew through it and it was clear. It fuel is getting to the pump but not pumping. I can see the injector pump is pumping ... it’s quite a basic engine ( which I like ) Pic of the pump attached Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 27, 2018 Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Nev said: I tried taking the injector pipe off the top of the pump and with the engine running there were no spurts of fuel, there was some air being pumped ( best description I can provide). I also took the pipe off and blew through it and it was clear. It fuel is getting to the pump but not pumping. I can see the injector pump is pumping ... it’s quite a basic engine ( which I like ) Pic of the pump attached Cheers Ok, Can you see the movement of the other cylinders pump piston and is the movement the same ? It seems like you might have to remove the pump and take it to a diesel injection repair shop to get it reconditioned. Is the horizontal rack spindle working ok on that pump ? Edited September 27, 2018 by bizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted September 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 Yes the pump piston on both pumps seem to be the same. I also checked the rack movement for similarity on both pumps and they were the same so I have to assume ( in the absence of any self serviceable bits on the pump) it’ll have to go to a specialist to look at it for me. Many thanks for your diagnostic help. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.k Posted September 27, 2018 Report Share Posted September 27, 2018 Its a Indian made MIco....I have seen the pumping plunger break a small piece out of the scroll at the top..........If the plunger was stuck ,the rack would not turn,.....the other possibility is the barrel pinion has come loose and the barrel isnt rotating.............If you take the pump for service,they will likely want both . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted September 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 Thanks again for all the help, it is appreciated. I have a couple of enquiries out for a direct replacement and also a repair, may do both so I have a spare as if one can go - so may the other ! I like to try and understand the workings of these bits of my engine to make me as self sufficient as possible. I have found this very helpful description of the workings of the Bosch unit. It may one day help someone else who has a similar issue. http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/articles/diesel1.htm As and when I have it repaired or replaced I'll let you know . Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 www.sheafdieselservices.com Based in Sheffield, good apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.k Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 You are lucky its a single unit,and is so simple...........I would pull it to bits ,and see whats wrong with it.....and if terminal,buy a complete Indian unit..........this will be a lot cheaper than a pump repairer,who will probably use Bosch bits......a new plunger /barrel unit from Bosch via a pump shop would be 300 quid,I reckon.....If they decide you need a new delivery valve assy,another couple of hundred.....then they still have to put it on the tester and set it....On a Indian Listeroid,,just install the whole new unit..........and spill time it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, john.k said: a new plunger /barrel unit from Bosch via a pump shop would be 300 quid,I reckon. Nowhere near Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.k Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 Less.....or more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 A lot less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted September 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said: www.sheafdieselservices.com Based in Sheffield, good apparently. Yes already been in touch and they have said they will have a look. It'll give me a reason to bike the part over there through the Peak District next week. 13 minutes ago, john.k said: You are lucky its a single unit,and is so simple...........I would pull it to bits ,and see whats wrong with it.....and if terminal,buy a complete Indian unit..........this will be a lot cheaper than a pump repairer,who will probably use Bosch bits......a new plunger /barrel unit from Bosch via a pump shop would be 300 quid,I reckon.....If they decide you need a new delivery valve assy,another couple of hundred.....then they still have to put it on the tester and set it....On a Indian Listeroid,,just install the whole new unit..........and spill time it. 7 minutes ago, RLWP said: A lot less https://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Lister-CS-Bosch-Mico-Fuel-Pump-Large-034-type.html Just over £100 plus postage for a genuine Bosh unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.k Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 OK,I priced on German made Bosch parts.....but on an update,I see that Motor Industries Company,is now part of Bosch,or maybe Bosch is part of Motor Industries,MICO.....Bosch also own the Joseph Lucas and CAV names for automotive electrical equipment and spares,which are also made in India..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 Well its sorted and I am a bit wiser on how this old lump does its suck squeeze bang blow. I tried bleeding it from the top injector pipe and that is where I made my mistake. Plus what I thought was a bleed screw was not. I took the pump off which was quite easy, a couple of split pin linkages, the injector pipe at the top then two bolts that held the pump on and took it over to Sheaf diesel services in Sheffield. http://www.sheafdieselservices.com/ They were very helpful and took the time to explain the workings and what might be the issue. They said they would strip it and check it and call me back. Less that 24 hours later Andrew the owner (I think) called me to say they could not find anything wrong with the pump. They had cleaned it checked it for wear (non) and suspected it had had an air lock and described how I should bleed it. They said if I collected it they would show me the way to bleed it - and that had been my issue all along as described in my opening post.... just was not aware how to bleed the pump. For anyone else coming this way - or as a reminder if it happens again its quite simple. I took the top nut off that connects the injector pipe thinking that would release the air. What I should have done was slowly loosen the full top fixing to allowed fuel to flow out then screw the fixing back down which removes any air lock. Took two goes but it was that simple !! So I know a bit more about my engine. I also know there is no wear in the pump - so hopefully can assume the same for the other pump. I know where there is a very decent diesel service centre hopefully I'll not need them again anytime soon. Thank you again for the helpful comments. If an admin could retitle this post with a - fixed at the end so people know there is a solution to the question I think that would be useful. Now I can move Percy to her new moorings on the Shroppie - have a read - http://nbpercy.blogspot.com/2018/09/giving-it-upmilestone-post-for-blog.html Regards Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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