Boat sunk, by Stag Party?

[rasputin]

3 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

 

The very fact you ask the question displays you have not experienced anything like it, I'm pleased (for you ) to say.

 

 

 

 

I have.

[TheBiscuits]

24 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

What has to "all go wrong" to be found under the influence?

After all the police would have to be involved and have reason to take a breatholizer test.

This would have to be a fairly major incident at 4mph.

I totally agree, and I suspect we are probably looking at either serious injury or loss of life before the police would get involved.  Maybe I should have said "all go horribly wrong!"

 

Quote

80 Non-professionals
(1) This section applies to a person who—
  (a) is on board a ship which is under way,
  (b) is exercising, or purporting or attempting to exercise, a function in connection with the navigation of the ship, and
  (c) is not a person to whom section 78 or 79 applies.
(2) A person to whom this section applies commits an offence if his ability to exercise the function mentioned in subsection (1)(b) is impaired because of drink or drugs.
(3) A person to whom this section applies commits an offence if the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit.
(4) The Secretary of State may make regulations providing for subsection (3) not to apply in specified circumstances.
(5) Regulations under subsection (4) may make provision by reference, in particular—
  (a) to the power of a motor;
  (b) to the size of a ship;
  (c) to location.

As far as I can see, this does not currently apply - only 80(4) and 80(5) have a commencement date - 30 March 2004. 

 

This does mean we are only a slash of a pen away from having these rules enforced, but I can't find that they have been.

 

There was talk in 2007 of creating section 80 regulations for boats over 7m in length and/or capable of doing over 7 knots, but I can not find any reference to these ever being produced.

[zenataomm]

7 minutes ago, rasputin said:

I have.

Me too.

[ditchcrawler]

32 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I totally agree, and I suspect we are probably looking at either serious injury or loss of life before the police would get involved.  Maybe I should have said "all go horribly wrong!"

 

As far as I can see, this does not currently apply - only 80(4) and 80(5) have a commencement date - 30 March 2004. 

 

This does mean we are only a slash of a pen away from having these rules enforced, but I can't find that they have been.

 

There was talk in 2007 of creating section 80 regulations for boats over 7m in length and/or capable of doing over 7 knots, but I can not find any reference to these ever being produced.

I don't think it has

 

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

An interesting defence - I crash just as much when sober as after drinking, therefore the drink did not impare my ability to navigate.

This is why I never quote statistics as they are nonsense. It's proven fact however that three times as many sober people are involved in road deaths than drunk people so we should all be pissed when we drive to save lives.

[mayalld]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Railways and Transport Safety Act states that it is illegal to operate a boat whilst over the drink-drive limit.

 

80 Non-professionals

(1) This section applies to a person who—

(a) is on board a ship which is under way,

(b) is exercising, or purporting or attempting to exercise, a function in connection with the navigation of the ship, and

(c) is not a person to whom section 78 or 79 applies.

 

(2) A person to whom this section applies commits an offence if his ability to exercise the function mentioned in subsection (1)(b) is impaired because of drink or drugs.

 

(3) A person to whom this section applies commits an offence if the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit.

 

(4) The Secretary of State may make regulations providing for subsection (3) not to apply in specified circumstances. 

 

81 Prescribed limit

(1) The prescribed limit of alcohol for the purposes of this Part is—

(a) in the case of breath, 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres,

(b) in the case of blood, 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres, and

(c) in the case of urine, 107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres.

 

(2) The Secretary of State may make regulations amending subsection (1).

Enforcement
82 Penalty A person guilty of an offence under this Part shall be liable—

(a) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, to a fine or to both, or

(b) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum.

 

 

 

However, Section 80 is not in force.

 

No Commencement order has ever been made for it.

[TheBiscuits]

It is being campaigned for though:

 

https://www.britishports.org.uk/news/maritime-safety-week-time-to-close-the-drink-drive-loophole-for-recreational-mariners

[The Bearwood Boster]

2 hours ago, rasputin said:

does only having one eye stop a person being employed?

Nope.

[Dr Bob]

25 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

It is being campaigned for though:

 

https://www.britishports.org.uk/news/maritime-safety-week-time-to-close-the-drink-drive-loophole-for-recreational-mariners

Interesting!

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, rasputin said:

does only having one eye stop a person being employed?

Course not.  However, if you were psychologically sound, would you choose to live in a rotting hulk?  No, you'd find a way to get yourself sorted, get your benefits organised etc etc.  If you're not, though, that's where you end up, if you're lucky.

[Athy]

Ironically enough, some of the blokes on the stag-party boats probably wear "pirate" eye-patches and thus PRETEND to have lost an eye. They should be careful what they wish for.

[Detling]

Maybe the hire companies find it hard to get other types of customers due the less than picture perfect scenery of the moored boats on the canal and probable shouts to slow down when they are almost stationary. This is similar to the south Oxford just north of town, not really a good advert for canal life, yet the first stretch met by many hire boaters. 

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Interesting!

And worrying. Drink-drive laws were brought in because drinking and driving kills thousands of people every year. They apply to pilots and captains of ships because being drunk in charge could (and has) killed hundreds of people in single incidents, or caused environmental disasters.

 

In comparison, I'm sure that the number of small non-commercial boat captains who kill people through being drunk is negligible, almost all such canal/river-related deaths are due to passengers who are not the captain falling overboard (or from the bank into a canal) while drunk, and there is no law to prevent people doing this.

 

This doesn't in any way excuse the behaviour of the stag parties, but the way to deal with this is already in place via the contract they signed with the hire base (so Alvechurch could justifiably kick them off the boat and leave them on the towpath in the rain), not by bringing in a catch-all law which risks criminalising normal well-behaved safe canal and river users who happen to like a beer (or glass of wine, or G&T) when cruising.

Edited September 26, 2018 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

This doesn't in any way excuse the behaviour of the stag parties, but the way to deal with this is already in place via the contract they signed with the hire base (so Alvechurch could justifiably kick them off the boat and leave them on the towpath in the rain), not by bringing in a catch-all law which risks criminalising normal well-behaved safe canal and river users who happen to like a beer (or glass of wine, or G&T) when cruising.

Or even moored up for the night.

[cuthound]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

And worrying. Drink-drive laws were brought in because drinking and driving kills thousands of people every year. They apply to pilots and captains of ships because being drunk in charge could (and has) killed hundreds of people in single incidents, or caused environmental disasters.

 

In comparison, I'm sure that the number of small non-commercial boat captains who kill people through being drunk is negligible, almost all such canal/river-related deaths are due to passengers who are not the captain falling overboard (or from the bank into a canal) while drunk, and there is no law to prevent people doing this.

 

This doesn't in any way excuse the behaviour of the stag parties, but the way to deal with this is already in place via the contract they signed with the hire base (so Alvechurch could justifiably kick them off the boat and leave them on the towpath in the rain), not by bringing in a catch-all law which risks criminalising normal well-behaved safe canal and river users who happen to like a beer (or glass of wine, or G&T) when cruising.

 

I agree, have a greenie.

 

There is little evidence to support the need to control on drunken boat steering from a killed or seriously injured point of view. 

 

The last thing needed is a knee jerk reaction. Who will police the breathslysing if the law is implemented? The Police no longer have the resources to police the roads properly any more, and hire companies already have means to penalise unruly hirers, albeit usually after the event.

 

All the boaters I know either wait until moored before having a drink, or limit themselves to a couple of pints whilst steering.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Or even moored up for the night.

The explanatory notes state:

 

Section 80: Non-professionals

113. Section 80 applies to non-professionals (recreational mariners). The offence created is a “moving” offence, which only applies if the vessel is in motion (in contrast to sections 78 and 79) and the offence does not apply to passengers. Section 80 also provides a power to except, by regulations, non-professional mariners who do not pose substantial safety risks from the prescribed limits and the requirement to provide specimens.

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

I smile all the time in real life and people ask if I'm alright. Cheeky buggers.

cant do smilies on my iPad as I can't do smilies on my iPad. I can on emails and text messages but not on here.  But I'll try now

Are in Guz? Yes to the beer then. I may even buy you one back!!

?

It bloomin' well worked. Hadn't tried for yonks.

I am in Guzz from today for the next couple of weeks between boating escapades. We stayed put down here when the Navy thought it would be best for everyone if they started paying me not to turn up for work!  What's your reunion?

 

Glad to have helped put a smile back into your life

 

[Victor Vectis]

4 hours ago, PD1964 said:

Get real, why should other people look after him? when he can't even look after himself or his boat, Too many tree huggers with the luvvy dovey, peacy, huggy atitude coming on the canals, people have got to take responsibility of their own actions and life. 

And you have never needed any help in your life I suppose?

4 hours ago, Jerra said:

A virtual greenie as I can't give you a real one.

Ditto

[mrsmelly]

33 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I am in Guzz from today for the next couple of weeks between boating escapades. We stayed put down here when the Navy thought it would be best for everyone if they started paying me not to turn up for work!  What's your reunion?

 

Glad to have helped put a smile back into your life

 

Oy u2, nip down to the two trees and have a beer for me then go to Diamond Lills and on to rooftop gardens for the rest of the night ??............if only.........

[Sea Dog]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Oy u2, nip down to the two trees and have a beer for me then go to Diamond Lills and on to rooftop gardens for the rest of the night ??............if only.........

Yeah right, if only they were still there!  Even the Two Twigs has gone now, though I guess it hung on quite well given the circumstances.  Lill's - Sunday lunchtime, still feeling rotten after that Saturday night... 

[Clodi]

4 hours ago, rasputin said:

does only having one eye stop a person being employed?

It does if the other one doesn't work

[Nightwatch]

44 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I am in Guzz from today for the next couple of weeks between boating escapades. We stayed put down here when the Navy thought it would be best for everyone if they started paying me not to turn up for work!  What's your reunion?

 

Glad to have helped put a smile back into your life

 

PM sent.

[Clodi]

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/stag-party-revellers-boat-sinking-2045185

 

6 hours ago, RichM said:

Agree, it shouldn't have been in the water in that state so a little unfair to blame hire boaters.

 

Surely a boat in this state wouldn't pass a BSS?

Well the boat has been on the system for a number of years

Edited September 26, 2018 by Clodi

[Nightwatch]

10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Oy u2, nip down to the two trees and have a beer for me then go to Diamond Lills and on to rooftop gardens for the rest of the night ??............if only.........

Tim, you're more than welcome to buy me an ale!

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Yeah right, if only they were still there!  Even the Two Twigs has gone now, though I guess it hung on quite well given the circumstances.  Lill's - Sunday lunchtime, still feeling rotten after that Saturday night... 

Yeah I know, the two trees has been gone for many years and the bloomin bridge next to it ?  Still a good run ashore though innitt ?

1 minute ago, Nightwatch said:

Tim, you're more than welcome to buy me an ale!

Let me know how the reunion went you old sod ?