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1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

The issue is not the likes of us remembering the signals. It is that very few 'other' people will actually understand them, none of the 'other' people will have such a sticker, and therefore making a correct horn signal is unlikely to have the desired result, which is to transmit information about intentions. 

I see what you are thinking, but would have to disagree.  The boater cited earlier in the thread (three blasts when approaching a bridgehole) would probably be found to be at fault in the event of a collision that caused significant harm or damage.

 

As he is making the clearly understood and required signal for "I am in reverse" (three short blasts) rather than "I am here" (one long blast) any oncoming boat that collided with him would have an excellent defence for proceeding.

 

I know that some people who do know the correct signals won't use them in case the other boat thinks they are being rude, but that strikes me as ridiculous.  Even if the other skipper does not understand the meaning of the signal, it should be bleeding obvious that something unusual is happening, hence all the tooting!

 

12 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Unless, of course, you crave that thrill of righteous indignation, having sounded your horn just before the silly bugger thumps into you. 

Read the COLREGS again.  All skippers are responsible for avoiding collisions, so simply using the correct signals does not give you right of way or absolve you from blame, but knowing the correct signals and using them when appropriate is surely better than ignoring them.

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52 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I see what you are thinking, but would have to disagree.  The boater cited earlier in the thread (three blasts when approaching a bridgehole) would probably be found to be at fault in the event of a collision that caused significant harm or damage.

 

As he is making the clearly understood and required signal for "I am in reverse" (three short blasts) rather than "I am here" (one long blast) any oncoming boat that collided with him would have an excellent defence for proceeding.

 

I know that some people who do know the correct signals won't use them in case the other boat thinks they are being rude, but that strikes me as ridiculous.  Even if the other skipper does not understand the meaning of the signal, it should be bleeding obvious that something unusual is happening, hence all the tooting!

 

Read the COLREGS again.  All skippers are responsible for avoiding collisions, so simply using the correct signals does not give you right of way or absolve you from blame, but knowing the correct signals and using them when appropriate is surely better than ignoring them.

The three toots happened to me, on approaching a bridge with reduced visibility I heard three short blasts so presumed an oncoming boat had seen my bows and gone in to reverse so I proceeded cautiously which was fortunate as the next moment a boat came flying through the bridge and their three toots was just to make sure they were heard.

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5 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

The three toots happened to me, on approaching a bridge with reduced visibility I heard three short blasts so presumed an oncoming boat had seen my bows and gone in to reverse so I proceeded cautiously which was fortunate as the next moment a boat came flying through the bridge and their three toots was just to make sure they were heard.

As long as you had given one long blast that was absolutely textbook.

 

I do accept @Machpoint005's point that the numpty coming the other way had no idea what he was signalling to you, but that's an education issue - at least he did use a sound signal! 

 

I suppose it's a bit like indicators being used on a BMW - you are so surprised to see them that you automatically brake :D

 

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I cannot understand that for anyone who struggles to remember the 5 key sound signals they don't put a small sticker / laminated sheet by the helm position.

Likewise a simple sticker (along with the others) alongside the helm on hire boats would ensure they understand.

 

I acknowledge the fact that many are stood on top of unreasonably loud thumpers, but that again can be resolved by having a horn loud enough to hear.

If you can hear a car horn whilst driving at 70mph with the radio on it should not be beyond the wit of man to use a horn on a boat that can be heard.

 

A little time ago I was cruising down the Humber when I suddenly 'jumped out of my skin' - a 'uge ship 'tooted' 5 blasts and he was about a mile away, I had no idea if he was telling me to 'sort myself out' or telling someone else, but it was VERY loud.

 

Is it more a case of non-conformist canal users who don't want 'boat-rules' to apply to them ?

 

The 'rules' :

 

 

 

The point is that you cannot always hear a car horn (or even two tones on emergency vehicles, which is why they fit the blue flashing lights) at 70mph with the radio on. There is also no legal requirement not to be deaf when steering a narrow boat so for people such as that you could play the Trumpet Voluntary on your horns and it would have no effect. I would however say that a blind person would have difficulty steering a narrow boat alone so for me sight signals are really the way to go, whatever COLREGS may or may not say. The number one eyeball will keep you out of more trouble than listening for someone playing their horns.

 

Your example with the large ship also rather illustrates the point since you didn't know whether he was signalling to you or to someone else.

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4 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 you could play the Trumpet Voluntary on your horns and it would have no effect.

Oddly enough, knowing Mr. Marshall's hobby, I was pondering that a few bars on his trombone might be more audible than the average boat horn.

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13 minutes ago, Athy said:

Oddly enough, knowing Mr. Marshall's hobby, I was pondering that a few bars on his trombone might be more audible than the average boat horn.

When we were going through Harecastle tunnel earlier this year, the chap on the boat in front of us proudly produced a bugle when asked to demonstrate/test his horn. 

 

The CRT chap refused to accept it as a working horn - he made the boater blow all the air out of his lungs then try and use the bugle, which obviously didn't work.  He then gave the boater a compressed air cylinder horn which they gave back at the other end of the tunnel.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Your example with the large ship also rather illustrates the point since you didn't know whether he was signalling to you or to someone else.

It was over a mile away and there were several boats between us - I was making the point that it was so loud that it made me jump.

Rather everyone thinks 'is it me ?' than no one takes any action.

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19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It was over a mile away and there were several boats between us - I was making the point that it was so loud that it made me jump.

Rather everyone thinks 'is it me ?' than no one takes any action.

However, a mile to a small craft is a long way but to a larger ship is no distance at all, especially at 12/14 knots. I would also respectfully suggest that if a ship sounding his whistle makes you jump would suggest that a lookout astern may be missing? Surely not in your case??

 

Howard

 

 

Edited by howardang
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10 minutes ago, howardang said:

However, a mile to a small craft is a long way but to a larger ship is no distance at all, especially at 12/14 knots.

The pedant in me says a mile is still a mile no matter what size you are.   However it would be between 3.75 - 4.25 minutes cruising wouldn't it (for the larger ship that is)?

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41 minutes ago, Jerra said:

The pedant in me says a mile is still a mile no matter what size you are.   However it would be between 3.75 - 4.25 minutes cruising wouldn't it (for the larger ship that is)?

A relatively narrow channel and a number of unpredictable small craft doesn't give a lot of time or space for the larger ship to take evasive action in order to avoid a close quarters situation. If yachtsmen were given the opportunity to spend some time on the bridge of a large ship in confined waterways I am sure they would be surprised how it compresses distance and time in this sort of situation

 

Howard

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

When we were going through Harecastle tunnel earlier this year, the chap on the boat in front of us proudly produced a bugle when asked to demonstrate/test his horn. 

 

The CRT chap refused to accept it as a working horn - he made the boater blow all the air out of his lungs then try and use the bugle, which obviously didn't work.  He then gave the boater a compressed air cylinder horn which they gave back at the other end of the tunnel.

 

 

So what happens when the cylinder runs out of air, at least the man could take another breath.

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3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

For those who remember the incident in Cowes back in 2011, this is what happens when you fail to give way to one of the 'big b*ggers'

 

Rather embarrassingly the skipper of the yacht was ex-RN so he should have known about COLREGS:(

Damned WAFI's :D 

 

Mind you a nuke boat bounced off a merchie near Gibraltar a couple of years ago ...

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/20/nuclear-powered-royal-navy-submarine-collides-with-a-merchant-ve/

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1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

For those who remember the incident in Cowes back in 2011, this is what happens when you fail to give way to one of the 'big b*ggers'

 

image.png.04a626ab0128b37b39254acfd71d5af0.png

 

Rather embarrassingly the skipper of the yacht was ex-RN so he should have known about COLREGS:(

At the time of the incident I am not sure, but I think the skipper was actually still a serving Officer in the RN but I don't know  in what capacity. They were lucky to get away with very little damage, but it could have so easily turned into  a tragedy. On a yacht it is so easy to overestimate the distance from an approaching ship and it is always good common sense, apart from good seamanship, not to mention obeying the rules, to give a larger vessel the benefit of the doubt and keep out of the way. 

 

"Here lies the body of Michael O'Day,
who died maintaining the right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,
but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.":boat:

 

Howard

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9 hours ago, Jerra said:

My problem is I have not learned the one which says "OK I have understood that"  so you don't know if your signal has been understood.

A couple which should be useful are long,short, long, short , which is "Yes" and long, short, which is "no".

 

I've always considered that to prove that two negatives make a positive ...

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9 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

A couple which should be useful are long,short, long, short , which is "Yes" and long, short, which is "no".

 

I've always considered that to prove that two negatives make a positive ...

Interesting, Iain. 

 

I clearly understand long-short-long-short as "C" / (bad pun on "si == yes") / "I agree to be overtaken as specified",  but long-short is only "N" as far as I know.  I can see the sense in using it as "No" but is it an official thing somewhere I have missed, or just a convenient shorthand?

 

 

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From International Code of Signals 1969 



SINGLE LETTER SIGNALS
May be made by any method of signaling.

(A to L snipped)

M My vessel is stopped and making no way through the water.
N No (negative or “The significance of the previous group should be read in the negative”). This signal may be given
only visually or by sound. For voice or radio transmission the signal should be “NO”.

O Man overboard.


 
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9 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

From International Code of Signals 1969 

 

Thanks for that - more bedtime reading.

 

I do like "X" as it ties in well with this thread :

X (long,short,short,long) Stop carrying out your intentions and watch for my signals.

 

http://www.seasources.net/PDF/PUB102.pdf does carry the footnote "1. Signals of letters marked by an asterisk (*) when made by sound may only be made in compliance with the requirements of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972." which includes "C" but not "N" - which is where we came in. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Thanks for that - more bedtime reading.

 

I do like "X" as it ties in well with this thread :

X (long,short,short,long) Stop carrying out your intentions and watch for my signals.

 

 

 

 

 

Known to generations of seafarers as "Sexy X". Well, it does help to remember it!

 

Howard

 

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