1" of water in my cabin bilge - what to do !

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

i think 2ft... as one joist just at edge of first inspection hole I cut and presumably ?? next one at join of ply boards ...

 

You can't rely on anything being what you expect with a LB.

 

Best to cut hatches NOT in line with bearers anyway. Then it is easier to screw battens of 2x1 to the underside of all the edges so you can drop the (previously cut out) panel back into the hole and have it fully supported on all sides. 

 

Now stop those tears into the beer and get on with being sassy. Ok?

[frahkn]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You can't rely on anything being what you expect with a LB.

 

Best to cut hatches NOT in line with bearers anyway. Then it is easier to screw battens of 2x1 to the underside of all the edges so you can drop the (previously cut out) panel back into the hole and have it fully supported on all sides. 

 

Now stop those tears into the beer and get on with being sassy. Ok?

 

I'd be crying if I mixed Lambrusco and beer!

[mboat01]

Thanks. Panic attack over. Feeling better this morning if hungover. Id better just get on now and deal with it. It is why I cut the holes in the first place so that I could check the cabin bilge... Suppose I cant complain that I found the problem I was trying to look out for. So:water off, remove calorifier ("cauliflower", LOL), cut floor access hatch front and back, cut inspection holes, remove spongy ply, shake 'n' vac, nappies, look at base-plate, vent, fan, dehumidifier. At least that wont take long. Should be finished by 11:00 for a quick pint of lambrusco at the nearby pub ?

[BruceinSanity]

41 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Thanks. Panic attack over. Feeling better this morning if hungover. Id better just get on now and deal with it. It is why I cut the holes in the first place so that I could check the cabin bilge... Suppose I cant complain that I found the problem I was trying to look out for. So:water off, remove calorifier ("cauliflower", LOL), cut floor access hatch front and back, cut inspection holes, remove spongy ply, shake 'n' vac, nappies, look at base-plate, vent, fan, dehumidifier. At least that wont take long. Should be finished by 11:00 for a quick pint of lambrusco at the nearby pub ?

Yes, the motto for you is “just suck it up” – the beer, the Lambrusco, the water in your bilge...

 

[TheBiscuits]

42 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Thanks. Panic attack over. Feeling better this morning if hungover. Id better just get on now and deal with it. It is why I cut the holes in the first place so that I could check the cabin bilge... Suppose I cant complain that I found the problem I was trying to look out for. So:water off, remove calorifier ("cauliflower", LOL), cut floor access hatch front and back, cut inspection holes, remove spongy ply, shake 'n' vac, nappies, look at base-plate, vent, fan, dehumidifier. At least that wont take long. Should be finished by 11:00 for a quick pint of lambrusco at the nearby pub ?

I think you are going to fit in well here

 

(But I predict you will get to the very end of that list before you finish the middle part ... )

[WotEver]

As Mike said, the access panel doesn’t need to be huge. Large enough to access with a vac and to lay down pads is sufficient. Say a foot square. A common place for one is below the rear steps if they’re removable. 

[Neil2]

15 hours ago, Sassy Lass said:

Newbie doing refit of boat. Drilled inspection holes today in ply floor as suspected that bilge might be damp. Well ... it was worse than my worse nightmare... 1" of water sloshing around at the sternmost point of cabin up to 1/2" by 10' down the boat. At that point I felt too depressed to drill any more holes and have come home to ask for help !!.

 

I think the water has come from a leak some time in the past from water pump (that has now been replaced). I dont think there are any current leaks.

 

My question is - How do I deal with this properly ?

 

I can get most of the water out I think with wet and dry vacuum cleaner, maybe use nappies too. Im not too worried about that.

 

What do forum members think needs doing about the floor ?

 

Do I need to lift the ply floor, bin it, get down to the concrete paving ballast and get it all bone dry with a dehumidifier ?

 

Is it realistic to have cabin bilge bone dry ?

 

On a narrowboat it probably is, but most boat owners would say the point of the bilge is so that water entering the hull has somewhere to go, and a wooden boat owner would probably worry if there wasn't water in the bilge.   You only have to have a water leak somewhere, which is pretty much inevitable during the life of any boat, but even condensation can build up enough water to make your bilge wet eventually.  The issue with narrowboats is a) the potential for rust forming and b) the likelihood that ballast will be laying directly on the baseplate making drying out more difficult.  "Wet bilge" or through bilge boats generally had the ballast suspended above the baseplate and some sealed bilge boats are built this way as well.  But there are boats that don't allow the bilge water to percolate to the stern which is a real problem.  So long as your boat allows for the water to settle at the stern and trims stern down of course, it will dry out eventually assuming you've dealt with the cause of the water ingress.  

 

There can't be many members of this forum who haven't had to deal with water in the cabin bilge at some point.  Keeping water in its rightful place is an ongoing process on a boat so it's best not to get too het up about it.  

 

 

 

[mboat01]

Will it drain ... that is the question !

Did as suggested. Results as follows, in order from stern to bow: (1) Stern larger size hatch hole. Removed ~50L of water with vac. This is where water was deepest. Ply pretty wet through. Think it may have to go. (2) Mid-Bedroom. Ply quite dry. 10mm of water between balast blocks. (3) Aft-bedroom. Ply dry-ish. Wet. 8mm of water. (4) Toilet. ply good. 5mm of water. (5) Rear lounge ply dry and good. Bilge floor only slightly damp. no standing water. (6) Large hatch hole by aft doors. Bone dry. (see photos)

So ... most of water was lying to aft. All plumbing now removed. Pretty sure hull is good. So no more water should be coming in !. Real test is ... will it drain to stern overnight ?... or does it take longer ?

My next worry is that the hull metal base beams may not allow drainage to stern. Anyone got experience of completely stripping liverpool boats hull --- do they drain to stern ?.

What do you all think about the baseplate ? (taken at rear where was under most water). It seems to have been painted. (as was the ply on the underside). It is definitely blistered to a small extent but no deep flaking or soft areas. Does this extent of corrosion need all the ply floor removing, balast removing, rustkill, blacking ? -as per what these guys say http://floatingboatyard.london/water-cabin-bilge ?

[bizzard]

4 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Will it drain ... that is the question !

Did as suggested. Results as follows, in order from stern to bow: (1) Stern larger size hatch hole. Removed ~50L of water with vac. This is where water was deepest. Ply pretty wet through. Think it may have to go. (2) Mid-Bedroom. Ply quite dry. 10mm of water between balast blocks. (3) Aft-bedroom. Ply dry-ish. Wet. 8mm of water. (4) Toilet. ply good. 5mm of water. (5) Rear lounge ply dry and good. Bilge floor only slightly damp. no standing water. (6) Large hatch hole by aft doors. Bone dry. (see photos)

So ... most of water was lying to aft. All plumbing now removed. Pretty sure hull is good. So no more water should be coming in !. Real test is ... will it drain to stern overnight ?... or does it take longer ?

My next worry is that the hull metal base beams may not allow drainage to stern. Anyone got experience of completely stripping liverpool boats hull --- do they drain to stern ?.

What do you all think about the baseplate ? (taken at rear where was under most water). It seems to have been painted. (as was the ply on the underside). It is definitely blistered to a small extent but no deep flaking or soft areas. Does this extent of corrosion need all the ply floor removing, balast removing, rustkill, blacking ? -as per what these guys say http://floatingboatyard.london/water-cabin-bilge ?

The cross beams should have limber holes close to the base plate even on a dry bilge boat to allow water to drain aft. But some monkey builders don't bother. It will probably take a few days to drain aft, and then a drop now and again for some time as the boat rocks. If you can see a cross beam through the hatch you might see the limber holes, perhaps by removing a bit of ballast.

[TheBiscuits]

9 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Results as follows, in order from stern to bow: (1) Stern larger size hatch hole. Removed ~50L of water with vac. This is where water was deepest. Ply pretty wet through. Think it may have to go.

 

Real test is ... will it drain to stern overnight ?... or does it take longer ?

 

My next worry is that the hull metal base beams may not allow drainage to stern. Anyone got experience of completely stripping liverpool boats hull --- do they drain to stern ?.

What do you all think about the baseplate ? (taken at rear where was under most water). It seems to have been painted. (as was the ply on the underside). It is definitely blistered to a small extent but no deep flaking or soft areas. Does this extent of corrosion need all the ply floor removing, balast removing, rustkill, blacking ?

Looks OK so far.

 

Are you saying that you took 50 litres out of the stern section and no more drained through?  I would expect it all to drain through to the stern eventually.  We are talking days or weeks for every last drop, not minutes.  You might also need to rock the boat a bit from side to side to let the water move - a lot depends how much sawdust is in the bilges as this needs time to let the water out.

 

Wet marine ply is fine, probably! - let it dry out and see what it does.  Soggy stuff you can break off with your fingers is shot and needs to be replaced. Spongy stuff somewhere inbetween needs drying out and then poking with a screwdriver to see if it needs to be replaced.

 

Your baseplate (what we can see of it) looks better than many - it looks like it has been painted or waxoyled so a lot of those blisters might be protective covering - let it dry and then see.

 

We won't be able to tell you if you need more remedial work for a weak at least, so don't panic.

 

Good idea on the photo captions - that's a dead easy way to let us know what we are looking at, and I might recommend that to others asking for advice on here.

 

I still want to know if you did all this before or after you went for a bucket of lambrusco though!

 

 

 

 

[mboat01]

yes around 50L from stern section and levels in other sections didnt seem to go down much... time will tell on that on. Think good advice to leave it at least a few days. 

 

the thing about drinking lots of lambrusco is you cant remember if you did things before or after, or indeed if you did them at all ?

[Neil2]

I suspect the way in which the ballast appears to have been chucked in that is what is stopping all the water draining aft.  As Bizzard says there should be limber holes but even if there are, the crazy paving way some boats are ballasted will make life difficult for the bilge water.   The problem is your concrete ballast will now be nice and wet. 

 

Concrete is very stubborn stuff when it gets wet when I was in the flood damage business we used to reckon a 4" house floor could take anything from 4-6 months to dry after flooding, so the typical 2" slabs on a narrowboat if completely saturated are going to take a similar time given that they occupy a restricted space.   Of course you could bite the bullet rip the entire floor up and remove the ballast but most of us would let nature take its course so to speak and reassess once the bilge has had time to dry itself, but you will need to be patient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

yes around 50L from stern section and levels in other sections didnt seem to go down much... time will tell on that on. Think good advice to leave it at least a few days. 

 

the thing about drinking lots of lambrusco is you cant remember if you did things before or after, or indeed if you did them at all ?

If you can, try and tip the boat backwards - any easy to move but heavy stuff to the rear, lowish water tank level no crap at the front - the more it's trimmed nose up the faster the water will move backwards.

 

Stick a fan in the bilge to get air moving under there.  Your worst nightmare would be mould under the floor - that needs a full strip and replace, so the faster you can dry it out the better.

 

You told us you would have done all this work and been in the pub for 11 this morning - did it work?

 

[mboat01]

Thanks again all. Ill take all weight I can to the rear. Going to completely strip out everything anyway including (internal) bulkheads, so hope that will help. Hope 'black' im seeing on underside of ply is paint and not mold LOL (not) ...

 

Thanks Neil. v.helpful wrt concrete drying time. 

 

Oh yes, I was in the pub super early. I havent just got home, eaten a ginsters pastie and collapsed. no. not even slightly.

 

[Karen Lea Rainey]

Try to take up a 4ft x 2ft floor panel or similar at the back of the boat, you need to check the cross beams that the ply has been screwed down into or nailed into. If they have been sodden for a while they stand a chance of being rotten, they will need replacing , otherwise you may well just 'paper over the cracks' so to speak, sometime in the near future you may well walk over that area and feel spongy flooring, or uneven flooring which you may well regret doing when you had the opportunity.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Sassy Lass said:

yes around 50L from stern section and levels in other sections didnt seem to go down much... time will tell on that on. Think good advice to leave it at least a few days. 

 

the thing about drinking lots of lambrusco is you cant remember if you did things before or after, or indeed if you did them at all ?

In a nutshell the boat is bloody fine and looks in good nick overall. The main problem here is you drink Lambrusco and it's bloody crap, get some good booze woman!! ?

[MtB]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

In a nutshell the boat is bloody fine and looks in good nick overall. The main problem here is you drink Lambrusco and it's bloody crap, get some good booze woman!! ?

 

I too am deeply concerned about the OP's tastes in everyuthing. 

 

Lambrusco wine, Ginsters pies and Liverpool boats. I think she needs some serious edumacating in the finer stuff in life....

 

 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

Pump and sponges will be fine. I must try nappies sometime. A bone dry bilge is a thing of beauty, and provided your cabin bilge is separated from the foredeck and stern areas should be perfectly achievable.

I don't think anyone has posted this list, so here goes, for possible water sources:

• leak in domestic water system, between tank and pump
• leak in domestic water system, at or after pump (my most recent leak was the pump itself)
• pressure release valve, on hot water system, venting into the bilges rather than overbooard
• leak on sink wastes
• shower tray, or shower waste pump leak
• hatches, mushroom vents, windows, aerials, fender eyes, or any other holes in the roof (NB the water will appear inside the boat in a completely different place)
• condensation
• pets deciding your inspection hatches would make a nice toilet
• improperly installed skin fittings, taking in water when under way or in rough water (on our first boat the self draining holes for the foredeck were below the waterline at full throttle). The attached photo shows a situation that might have led to some water ingress
   
• and, last but not least, a hole in the hull, below the water line.

 

[WotEver]

I have little to add to the above posts other than to say that the baseplate looks to be in bloody good nick

 

You’ll be mopping up water at the back for days if not weeks to come, assuming the beams have limber holes; let’s hope they have. 

 

Get a fan pushing air from front to back. A 12V computer fan is cheap to buy, cheap to run, and nicely compact. 

Eg https://m.reichelt.com/gb/en/fan-12-v-dc-80-x-80-x-25-mm-rpm-3200-fan-8025-12v-p11009.html?CTYPE=0&MWSTFREE=0&PROVID=2788&wt_guka=53988969597_263557961218&PROVID=2788&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrZLdBRCmARIsAFBZllEwtZXy1PFq7nFhrTfVenjJxS8pzAWEAt_lebYBg5ERpAJk20LaUYsaAhg7EALw_wcB&&r=1

Edited September 21, 2018 by WotEver

[roland elsdon]

When you put the fridge in drill holes under the base. It helps the fridge by drawing cool air from the bilge and helps the bilge by moving air.

[mboat01]

That's exactly the sort of brilliant idea I'd never have thought of !!.

 

With my (lack of) money and age this boat is only opportunity I'm likely to get to get a narrowboat so I'm really motivated to do it right and get it right.

 

Initial shock at binge water has passed now need to be a big girl and get on with it

 

[Neil2]

And by the way take no notice of MTB's jibes at Liverpool boats he seems to have it in for them for some reason.  At least they seem to have made an attempt to paint the baseplate which a lot of builders wouldn't bother doing.   

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

When you put the fridge in drill holes under the base. It helps the fridge by drawing cool air from the bilge and helps the bilge by moving air.

If it’s a 12V fridge it will have connections for wiring in an optional external fan when the compressor runs. If you use a 12V fan (or two) as linked above to draw the air out of these holes it will be even more effective. 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Sassy Lass said:

Initial shock at binge water has passed now need to be a big girl and get on with it

Someone else on the Lambrusco ?

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

And by the way take no notice of MTB's jibes at Liverpool boats he seems to have it in for them for some reason.    

 

I’d list them all out yet again for you as you seem to have missed my many posts in the past explaining, but I don’t have a couple of hours spare today