1" of water in my cabin bilge - what to do !

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I’d list them all out yet again for you as you seem to have missed my many posts in the past explaining, but I don’t have a couple of hours spare today 

Was it something to the effect of :

 

"I used to work for them doing the PDI's and every boat failed the gas tests and was dangerous" ?

[BruceinSanity]

5 hours ago, Sassy Lass said:

nitial shock at binge water has passed now need to be a big girl and get on with it

 

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Someone else on the Lambrusco ?

I thought binge water was what you passed after drinking all the Lambrusco...

 

Just to show I can be serious, I agree that baseplate looks just fine and what is needed now is ventilation, gentle warmth and loads of patience.

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Was it something to the effect of :

 

"I used to work for them doing the PDI's and every boat failed the gas tests and was dangerous" ?

 

That's 10% of it, yes. 

 

 

[nbfiresprite]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

That's 10% of it, yes. 

 

 

Nothing to do with Fred's boot being inserted somewhere? If the company was a bad as you claim, how did they stay in business for over 30 years?, building over 2000 hulls.

[Chewbacka]

On 21/09/2018 at 09:02, roland elsdon said:

When you put the fridge in drill holes under the base. It helps the fridge by drawing cool air from the bilge and helps the bilge by moving air.

Oh and make sure the warm air can get out at the top of the fridge.  On mine I put a grill  in the side lining above the fridge cutting back some of the spray foam to give the hot air an easy flow.

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

Oh and make sure the warm air can get out at the top of the fridge.  On mine I put a grill  in the side lining above the fridge cutting back some of the spray foam to give the hot air an easy flow.

And... check where the evaporator is on your fridge. It appears that many these days have them at the side as opposed to the rear. 

[Neil2]

9 minutes ago, WotEver said:

And... check where the evaporator is on your fridge. It appears that many these days have them at the side as opposed to the rear. 

I didn't know that but it's one of those things where you ask why didn't someone think of that years ago, it surely makes a lot of sense.

[ditchcrawler]

32 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I didn't know that but it's one of those things where you ask why didn't someone think of that years ago, it surely makes a lot of sense.

Far from it in my opinion

 

[mboat01]

Update ... So, the good news is that water does drain to stern. I moved everything I could to rear and that really helped... well it helped produce another 20L or so of water at the new stern floor hatch... ?. Bad news is that I dont think Im really satisfied * -  probably more of a psychological problem than an engineering problem - I want to do the job properly !.  Ive got the inside completely stripped out, bulkheads and everything removed so, as Im down to bare ply floor, Im thinking I might as well remove it all, take out the ballast, scrape, treat rust, prime and bilge paint the base plate, put new ballast in, put new ply down. Yeah. Fun. Definitely a quick and easy little job. Probably only 20minutes.  

 

* (in some inspection holes there is 2-3mm of "mud". Only its not mud. Its an amalgam of rust and dust and other filth that was in the bilge. I just can see this layer drying out very easily and, even if it does, its going to be a focus for corrosion)

[matty40s]

Ok, I am not going to be popular, but do you have a bowthruster.?

Liverpool boats , followed by Collingwood boats to the present day - according to photographs of every boat lifted in to a location where I have had a camera available - do not bother blacking the bowthruster tube. This applies to every widebeam lifted in here in the last few years.

We have sealed several ageing l Liverpool boats tubes, as a sensible option.

Its good money for a boatyard in the near future.

[mboat01]

no, no bowthruster & no tube (I think!). 

[Sea Dog]

29 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Update ... So, the good news is that water does drain to stern. I moved everything I could to rear and that really helped... well it helped produce another 20L or so of water at the new stern floor hatch... ?. Bad news is that I dont think Im really satisfied * -  probably more of a psychological problem than an engineering problem - I want to do the job properly !.  Ive got the inside completely stripped out, bulkheads and everything removed so, as Im down to bare ply floor, Im thinking I might as well remove it all, take out the ballast, scrape, treat rust, prime and bilge paint the base plate, put new ballast in, put new ply down. Yeah. Fun. Definitely a quick and easy little job. Probably only 20minutes.  

 

* (in some inspection holes there is 2-3mm of "mud". Only its not mud. Its an amalgam of rust and dust and other filth that was in the bilge. I just can see this layer drying out very easily and, even if it does, its going to be a focus for corrosion)

Crikey Sass, you're really getting to the bottom of it, aren't you! I have to say, you're leaving nothing to chance and, for what it's worth, since you've got the bulkheads out of the way, I'd be thinking the same thing. You're gonna have a lot of money, time and effort going in on top of that floor so you may as well be sure all is sound beneath it now. I like your spirit.  Good luck!

 

[mboat01]

Another, probably incredibly stupid question ? ... Isuzu 33HP engine in order to remove calorifier I shut off engine coolant-to calorifier supply at valves just out of engine - I presume engine is safe to run like this (without calorifier) with no other action required... ie., to have engine running safety as if calorifier was never fitted ?. 

(I know that the engine-calorfier output/return must *not* be connected directly together !). 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Sassy Lass

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Sassy Lass said:

Another, probably incredibly stupid question ? ... Isuzu 33HP engine in order to remove calorifier I shut off engine coolant-to calorifier supply at valves just out of engine - I presume engine is safe to run like this (without calorifier) with no other action required... ie., to have engine running safety as if calorifier was never fitted. 

(I know that the calorfier outputs must *not* be connected directly together !). 

 

Almost certainly correct and it’s fine to isolate the calorifier as you describe PROVIDED it has been installed correctly in the first place. There is always a tiny element of doubt about this as we have not seen your specific installation and there are boaters out there who are inveterate fiddlers who make the most lunatic alterations to their boats in the mistaken belief they know better. 

 

Keep a close eye on the engine temp for an hour the first time you run it with the cauliflower isolating valves turned OFF. 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

 

36 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Another, probably incredibly stupid question ? ... Isuzu 33HP engine in order to remove calorifier I shut off engine coolant-to calorifier supply at valves just out of engine - I presume engine is safe to run like this (without calorifier) with no other action required... ie., to have engine running safety as if calorifier was never fitted ?. 

(I know that the engine-calorfier output/return must *not* be connected directly together !). 

Interested to see others answer to this question.

 

On my engine (Mitsubishi/Thorneycroft) as constructed there is a bypass circuit (short section of hose) that takes water just before the thermostat and returns it into the bottom hose. This means that the pump can circulate water around the engine until the thermostat opens and then it goes to the skin tank. When the engine was installed this bypass loop was removed and the connections plumbed into the calorifier.  Once the calorifier has heated up the thermostat opens as normal. So in my boat if I did want to isolate the calorifier then I WOULD want to connect the out and return pipes together.  

 

I say this because (on my boat) my concern with your proposal is that it would stop water circulating around the engine until the thermostat opened. And some parts of the engine might get rather hot as a result.

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

When the engine was installed this bypass loop was removed and the connections plumbed into the calorifier.

 

A good example of what I was talking about above. Incorrect installation! The bypass circuit should be left as just that in my opinion. The calorifier should be connected as a cooling load in parallel with the skin tank, again in my personal opinion. 

[Chewbacka]

My engine was supplied with the calorifier in and out connected together by some heater hose.  My feeling is that there should always be some flow, and if you think about it, once the calorifier is fully up to temp little heat will be lost by that loop and so will in effect be the same as just linking in and out together.

 

 

[mboat01]

Thanks. Really helpful. I was assuming the calorifier circuit was in parallel (and so safe not to have on). There is info on this wrt. Canaline engines on pg 38 (here). I'll run engine and watch what happens to engine temp.

 

Mike --- as you're the Boilerman (!). Could I ask you another calorifier question ?. Boat will used only for cruising only 2 adults most of the time for next few years. For hot water Im thinking about just relying on (i) engine - calorifier when cruising and (ii) immersion heater element when on hook-up. It seems to me that a smaller calorifier tank would be better as it would be quicker to heat up when on electric immersion in particular. What size/volume would you recommend ? - would go even smaller, e.g., 30L ?

 

(a Jabsco 25psi pump - at open flow provides 7L/min,. So a shower with hot mixed 50:50 with cold water would drain = 3.5L/min hot water, so a 40L calorifier of hot water should be sufficient for 11 min of showering - which I think is plenty for one, and enough for two to shower if you're quick)

[Stilllearning]

7 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Thanks. Really helpful. I was assuming the calorifier circuit was in parallel (and so safe not to have on). There is info on this wrt. Canaline engines on pg 38 (here). I'll run engine and watch what happens to engine temp.

 

Mike --- as you're the Boilerman (!). Could I ask you another calorifier question ?. Boat will used only for cruising only 2 adults most of the time for next few years. For hot water Im thinking about just relying on (i) engine - calorifier when cruising and (ii) immersion heater element when on hook-up. It seems to me that a smaller calorifier tank would be better as it would be quicker to heat up when on electric immersion in particular. What size/volume would you recommend ? - would go even smaller, e.g., 30L ?

 

(a Jabsco 25psi pump - at open flow provides 7L/min,. So a shower with hot mixed 50:50 with cold water would drain = 3.5L/min hot water, so a 40L calorifier of hot water should be sufficient for 11 min of showering - which I think is plenty for one, and enough for two to shower if you're quick)

For showering when cruising, and I love long showers, the trick was to get someone to have a shower just a bit before stopping for the day, then the tank was reheated in time for the poor steerer to have a lovely long shower soon after stopping. The bigger the tank, the better imho.

[WotEver]

35 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

It seems to me that a smaller calorifier tank would be better as it would be quicker to heat up

And much quicker to cool down, with less hot water available before it starts to cool. Most calorifiers will get to full heat within 30-60 mins of engine running. The bigger the better. 

[IDS]

Hot water rises and sits at the top of the calorifier, so you don't need to heat the whole tank before hot water is available from the immersion. 

[Scholar Gypsy]

58 minutes ago, Sassy Lass said:

Thanks. Really helpful. I was assuming the calorifier circuit was in parallel (and so safe not to have on). There is info on this wrt. Canaline engines on pg 38 (here). I'll run engine and watch what happens to engine temp.

 

Interesting - that manual says the take-off is before the thermostat.  Is there a separate connection that provides the bypass function??

[Chewbacka]

47 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Interesting - that manual says the take-off is before the thermostat.  Is there a separate connection that provides the bypass function??

These engines were originally developed as or from vehicle engines and the regs require a fairly fast heater warm up so as to clear the windscreen in winter.  From an emissions and kindness to an engine viewpoint it is slightly better to warm up the engine as quickly as possible, so heater take off after the thermostat.  That is why most designs have the heater take off for the calorifier before the thermostat, though one engine mariniser has the best of both by having a twin thermostat design.  As to the bypass loop - if there is one, it is sometimes part of the thermostat housing design and not easy to see.  

[Onionman]

I may well have imagined it but didn't one of Graham Booth's boat building books suggest taking the engine air intake from the bilge so there was constant airflow through it and it remained bone-dry?

 

I really may have imagined it, of course.

[roland elsdon]

Gave a quick tow to a bloke last week whose boat ( builders name witheld but had a bowthruster) had broken. The problem was the keel cooler had rusted through, into the engine bilge.

so presumably lots of rusty crap in engine and great expense. Boat was 6 years old.