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Mineral oil


mrsmelly

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Just a quick question folks. What's your opinions especialy such as Tony B re the use of semi flipping synthetic oils? Ok it's not impossible to find proper good old mineral oil but is definitely becoming more often an order job as less and less shops and motor factors seem to stock it. My usual place in Banbury had non yesterday and yes got me some for today but it's getting to be a pain and it's now sometimes more expensive than modern stuff so......I have a modern Japanese smooooooooth lovely engine not some old knacker and do the panel,think it will be happy if I just start wanging semi or synthetic in it anyway??? Thanks folks in advance.

Edited by mrsmelly
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Try looking here:

API linky

The trouble seems to arise when using old spec oils in modern diesels, rather than modern oils in old diesels. I think CF is part-synthetic, though. 

 

This info from another API page may help:

 

"CF:        Service typical of indirect-injection diesel engines and other diesel engines that use a broad range of fuel types, including those using fuel with high sulfur content; for example, over 0.5% wt. Effective control of piston deposits, wear and copper-containing bearing corrosion is essential for these engines, which may be naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged. Oils designated for this service have been in existence since 1994 and may be used when API Service Category CD is recommended."

 

So whether CF is semi-synthetic or not (and I think it is) it doesn't really matter, it's perfectly OK for a tractor engine like mine (built 2003) and, IIRC, yours.

 

 

Edited by Machpoint005
API not PIA!
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9 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

You should have no problems with Semi Synth possibly be a bit more particular on removing as much of the old stuff as posible

why would that be? 

PS I used to buy tractor oil for my  Yanmar YSB boat engine, it came out of a girt big oil drum, and I paid about a tenner for 10 litres. I knew nothing of this...............

Edited by LadyG
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6 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Which the having no problem or removing as much of the old oil as possible?

boats have a lot in common with sheep: they spend their lives trying to find novel ways to die.

What I mean is, why is it more important to remove more oil with higher spec oils?

Edited by LadyG
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21 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have a modern Japanese smooooooooth lovely engine not some old knacker and do the panel,think it will be happy if I just start wanging semi or synthetic in it anyway???

I can't remember if you've posted previously what engine you have Tim, but if it's a Beta they definitely now approve the use of semi-synthetic oil.

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Just now, Sea Dog said:

I can't remember if you've posted previously what engine you have Tim, but if it's a Beta they definitely now approve the use of semi-synthetic oil.

Thanks folks. Yes it's an Isuzu so very similar I suppose so I ain't going to worry chasing mineral from now on ?

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First of all until I can see an authoritative explanation for applying the term "semi-synthetic" to fairly ordinary motor oils I will continue to say I believe that all oils blended since multi-grade oil came out may be described as semi-synthetic in that the additive pack that is added to the base oil to make it perform to spec. It is certainly not simple refined oil. Even if it is based on such oil it will have been chemically modified and added to.

 

I have been using 15W40 CF in the Bukh for some years and I have not found a problem.

 

WE need to be a bit wary about the utterings of API because I doubt there are many, if any, engine applications that run the engine for so long and on such a low load and speed as the UK inland boat market so when they say API CC etc. are obsolete. Lister Peter gave me a paper that suggested the size of the additive pack in oils MIGHT be implicated in bore glazing so it makes some sense to try to stay close to the engine makers original/latest specification but I think you should look at the economics as well - hence my using Wilco CF oil. If I had an exotic or real trad engine I would be less cavalier about the oil spec but once properly run in I very much doubt CF oil will do the majority of engines any harm at all. What is likely to do harm is running them off load and on idle for hours to charge batteries or heat water. Keeping the revs at the speed that gives the highest charging current, which means you will slowely reduce it, not only gives the maximum load but also minimizes the cold running time.

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4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

boats have a lot in common with sheep: they spend their lives trying to find novel ways to die.

What I mean is, why is it more important to remove more oil with higher spec oils?

If you are using BrandX mineral oil & replacing with same or equiv oil of another brand if a small amount of old oil is left in the motor (Not Ideal) but not life threatening as the same or equiv specs if you are draining Brand X(mineral )& replacing with semi synth it is ideal if all the old oil can be removed then not contaminating new Semi synth with different specs properties as this is not practical in most oil changes getting the max amount of the old oil removed is preferable This is what I was referring to the use of  different spec oil The Op was posting about changing oils & the problems with finding mineral to buy & if changing to Semi synth would it be problem free

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18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I use SF/CD oil (as specified) in my Ford Cargo engines.

Readily available in anything from 1 litre to '45 gallon' drums.

 

image.png.0fae98ac8657d8b925d8b153624fe36d.png

 

CD is a spec (obsolete) for diesel engine oil. SF is a spec for petrol engine oil. I think (but I am not sure) the "C" for "compression-ignition" and the "S" stands for "spark-ignition". Even if it doesn't it's a good way of remembering which is which!

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I use Morris's 15/40 semi synthetic in my Perkins 4108,and have done for many years. Using mineral oils before that, I used a litre or so topping up. I now go from oil change to oil change without the need to top up. There does not appear to be a downside. After 30 years, it starts without delay, and does not smoke.

I still get 5 hours running per gallon of diesel.

Edited by Ex Brummie
further relevant information.
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Vetus say semi or full synth is fine for the 415 and 417 series engines. I stick with mineral oil for our Vetus as mineral is required for the PRM box and too much faff carrying two different oils with me.
(If anybody wants to call me out on the "no synth in PRM box" thing again, I advise you to email PRM as I did.)

Edited by Guest
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4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Just a quick question folks. What's your opinions especialy such as Tony B re the use of semi flipping synthetic oils? Ok it's not impossible to find proper good old mineral oil but is definitely becoming more often an order job as less and less shops and motor factors seem to stock it. My usual place in Banbury had non yesterday and yes got me some for today but it's getting to be a pain and it's now sometimes more expensive than modern stuff so......I have a modern Japanese smooooooooth lovely engine not some old knacker and do the panel,think it will be happy if I just start wanging semi or synthetic in it anyway??? Thanks folks in advance.

Tim,

 

If by chance you take winter moorings at Barton, try the Vintage Bearing Company in Burton. 01283 509562. Near the canal at Branston. Used to get all my oil from them. http://vintagebearings.co.uk/vintage-classic-oil/2528971

 

Very helpful people.

 

Tony

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4 minutes ago, Edders said:

Tim,

 

If by chance you take winter moorings at Barton, try the Vintage Bearing Company in Burton. 01283 509562. Near the canal at Branston. Used to get all my oil from them. http://vintagebearings.co.uk/vintage-classic-oil/2528971

 

Very helpful people.

 

Tony

Hi Tony

Not up that way this winter now after a quick change of plan....you know us lol. How ya keeping? I'll text ya when I get a fone signal.

 

Tim

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10 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

I been using Wilko Classic Car 20W50 for over ten years in my old beta 1505. Was there non in stock at Banbury?

 

I have been sorely tempted at times but even 20 bloomin 50 is getting awkward to get of late and I don't know enough about viscosity to know if it would knacker my engine up.

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18 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have been sorely tempted at times but even 20 bloomin 50 is getting awkward to get of late and I don't know enough about viscosity to know if it would knacker my engine up.

It is, in my view, extremely unlikely that a 15W40 oil in an engine originally specified to use a 20W50 would have any detrimental effect at all. It might even help cold starting in winter. Basically a 15W40 oil when compared with a 20W50 oil would allow a given amount to flow out of an orifice 5 seconds faster when cold and 10 seconds faster when hot. Seeing many engines that eventually specified 20W50 started with SAE20 or SAE15 for winter used and SAE 30 for summer use I doubt the 15W40's viscosity will have any effect at all. However in a very well worn engine it might lead to low oil pressure but as a rep for Mobile once said to me  "as long as you can keep it in the bearings Brilliantine will do". I would not go that far though.

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