Birmingham Trip Boats

[MHS]

I am getting fed up with the Birmingham trip boats. 

 

Having come up Farmers on a Sunday morning, we turned through Old Junction towards Gas St Basin. A trip boat pushed out in front of us, which was fine and cruised in front. Passing under Broad St, he signalled for us to come through and pass him as he turned around in Gas St Basin. 

As we came out into the basin another trip boat was stationary, facing us in the narrowing of the Worcester Bar. He signalled and shouted for us to reverse through the tunnel. No idea why as there’s plenty of room to pass there. I stood my ground and after some moaning from him he set off and we easily passed each other. 

 

Later, we were the only boat moored above the Holliday St aqueduct, opposite the Premier Inn. A 3rd trip boat came down toward the Mailbox and hit us. There was no excuse as there was nothing coming the other way and it went the whole way down our port side. On giving the steerer the international gesture of both palms up saying “what was that about” I hoped the reply of a mouthed “Sorry” and a hand up in apology. What I got was the woman wildly shouting and gesticulating as if it wasn’t her fault for some reason. There was no real damage done, only like scraping a lock wall heavily. But come on. 

 

How much training do these professional skippers get?

 

Sorry, moan over!

[john6767]

Nice rant!  I don't know what training they get but these boats take 50 people so presumably they do need to be qualified but I guess that training may be more about safety than actual boat handling or etiquette.

 

By the Premier Inn can be windy though,  I was blown across the canal and I hit the side of a moored boat there, serves me right for going slowly I guess, which the trip boat would not have been.

[MHS]

Just now, john6767 said:

Nice rant!  I don't know what training they get but these boats take 50 people so presumably they do need to be qualified but I guess that training may be more about safety than actual boat handling or etiquette.

 

By the Premier Inn can be windy though,  I was blown across the canal and I hit the side of a moored boat there, serves me right for going slowly I guess, which the trip boat would not have been.

You are correct, it can be windy there, but it wasn’t. Even if it had been, she would know it as a regular skipper there and could have cruised down the opposite side of the cut. 

 

Safety training will include collision avoidance. 

 

All i I wanted was a basic apology, which I would automatically do i’d bumped someone. 

[john6767]

1 minute ago, MHS said:

You are correct, it can be windy there, but it wasn’t. Even if it had been, she would know it as a regular skipper there and could have cruised down the opposite side of the cut. 

 

Safety training will include collision avoidance. 

 

All i I wanted was a basic apology, which I would automatically do i’d bumped someone. 

I agree there is no reason not to apologise

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, MHS said:

I am getting fed up with the Birmingham trip boats. 

 

Having come up Farmers on a Sunday morning, we turned through Old Junction towards Gas St Basin. A trip boat pushed out in front of us, which was fine and cruised in front. Passing under Broad St, he signalled for us to come through and pass him as he turned around in Gas St Basin. 

As we came out into the basin another trip boat was stationary, facing us in the narrowing of the Worcester Bar. He signalled and shouted for us to reverse through the tunnel. No idea why as there’s plenty of room to pass there. I stood my ground and after some moaning from him he set off and we easily passed each other. 

 

Later, we were the only boat moored above the Holliday St aqueduct, opposite the Premier Inn. A 3rd trip boat came down toward the Mailbox and hit us. There was no excuse as there was nothing coming the other way and it went the whole way down our port side. On giving the steerer the international gesture of both palms up saying “what was that about” I hoped the reply of a mouthed “Sorry” and a hand up in apology. What I got was the woman wildly shouting and gesticulating as if it wasn’t her fault for some reason. There was no real damage done, only like scraping a lock wall heavily. But come on. 

 

How much training do these professional skippers get?

 

Sorry, moan over!

They’ve had a couple of new steerers recently, seen out with a woman training them. If it’s the same woman, there is no hope!

[David Schweizer]

6 hours ago, john6767 said:

Nice rant!  I don't know what training they get but these boats take 50 people so presumably they do need to be qualified but I guess that training may be more about safety than actual boat handling or etiquette.

 

By the Premier Inn can be windy though,  I was blown across the canal and I hit the side of a moored boat there, serves me right for going slowly I guess, which the trip boat would not have been.

Yes to Captain a trip boat capable of carrying more that 12 people you need to possess an MCA Boatmaster's Licence at the level appropriate for the navigation being cruised, which for canals and non tidal rivers is either catagory A or B. and the training will include appropriate consideration for other boats  and canal users. Applicants need to be medically fit and complete basic training in personal safety, First Aid, and Fire safety, and need to provide recorded evidence of at least 120 working days experience over a period of 12months before being sumbmitted for the practical and on board  oral assessment. However, that does not mean that the person steeing a trip boat is in opossession of such a licence, as they may be under training, but they must be closely supervised at all times, whilst in charge of the boat, by an experienced Boatmaster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

They’ve had a couple of new steerers recently, seen out with a woman training them. If it’s the same woman, there is no hope!

If it was someone under training, the Supervising Boatmaster is legally in charge of the vessel and that person should have apologised, if the steerer was unable to divert her attention.

[nicknorman]

12 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

If it was someone under training, the Supervising Boatmaster is legally in charge of the vessel and that person should have apologised, if the steerer was unable to divert her attention.

 

My pont was that I have seen a woman trainer/supervisor with a new recruit steerer, on a few occasions. As far as I know she is the only woman “boatmistress” working for them. According to the OP it was she steering (alone) who hit the boat. If she is the instructor and yet she can’t manage basic boating without crashery, as I said “there is no hope!”

[MHS]

Yes she was alone. We saw her back in June and I think she was the only skipper then too. 

I’m very happy to give way to trip boats and treat them like any commercial vessel that has priority. 

 

However they cannot carry on as if you’re not there. 

[David Schweizer]

29 minutes ago, MHS said:

Yes she was alone. We saw her back in June and I think she was the only skipper then too. 

I’m very happy to give way to trip boats and treat them like any commercial vessel that has priority. 

 

However they cannot carry on as if you’re not there. 

Was she the only captain or the only cew member?  Unless they have changed, since i worked a Trip Boat,  the regulations require a minimum of two crew, one of whom must be a qualified Boat Master.

Edited September 18, 2018 by David Schweizer

[nicknorman]

39 minutes ago, MHS said:

Yes she was alone. We saw her back in June and I think she was the only skipper then too. 

I’m very happy to give way to trip boats and treat them like any commercial vessel that has priority. 

 

However they cannot carry on as if you’re not there. 

Commercial vessels on inland canals do not have priority. One could argue that a hire boat is a commercial vessel, ditto a coal boat, hotel boat or any other floating trader. They don’t have priority. Only large commercial vessels have priority when it comes to deep water on large commercial waterways. Of course you may chose to grant them priority, but they don’t have it by right.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

Was she the only captain or the only cew member?  Unless they have changed, since i worked a Trip Boat,  the regulations require a minimum of two crew, one of whom must be a qualified Boat Master.

Not quite right but nearly there. Each boat has a stipulated minimum crewing depending on its size etc. For example Nottingham Princess which has toilets about the size of the bcn trip boats total size lol and a certified passenger number of 172 across the two decks with a maximum upper deck number. I hold 2 different boat masters licences ( just renewed for the hell of it ) though I don't know why lol. You are of course quite correct that the skipper doesn't even need to be at or even near the helm. Mistakes are made in every single walk of life. Lorry drivers cause accidents, helicopter pilots crash helicopters for various reasons as do airline pilots, surgeons kill people etc etc etc. I think the op was miffed at the no simple sorry after the impact which is just bad manners on the steerers side innitt. One of my licences is for passenger numbers up to 250 and for instance should I wish to up the number I have to take another test. Also although they are all " Boatmasters licences " non of mine are valid on the Thames for instance but I am licenced for the Trent But only between Nottingham and Newark due to having to show knowledge of the particular waterway section. There is also tier one and two etc. There is far more to Boatmasters licences since big tightening up in 2007.

[roland elsdon]

We used to take up to 40 i think solo, but not at night. At night you had to have crew to sell beer.....

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Not quite right but nearly there. Each boat has a stipulated minimum crewing depending on its size etc. For example Nottingham Princess which has toilets about the size of the bcn trip boats total size lol and a certified passenger number of 172 across the two decks with a maximum upper deck number. I hold 2 different boat masters licences ( just renewed for the hell of it ) though I don't know why lol. You are of course quite correct that the skipper doesn't even need to be at or even near the helm. Mistakes are made in every single walk of life. Lorry drivers cause accidents, helicopter pilots crash helicopters for various reasons as do airline pilots, surgeons kill people etc etc etc. I think the op was miffed at the no simple sorry after the impact which is just bad manners on the steerers side innitt. One of my licences is for passenger numbers up to 250 and for instance should I wish to up the number I have to take another test. Also although they are all " Boatmasters licences " non of mine are valid on the Thames for instance but I am licenced for the Trent But only between Nottingham and Newark due to having to show knowledge of the particular waterway section. There is also tier one and two etc. There is far more to Boatmasters licences since big tightening up in 2007.

When you say you have renewed your masters licence, what test or competence did you have to do? Or was it just like renewing a passport? genuine question since I've been renewing my sailing ICC every 5 years enabling me to bareboat charter for offshore sailing and all I have to do is send in the application, no evidence having done  any sailing since the last application is required. This rather differs from my LGV licence which, for me to renew it and be able to use it, I would have to complete the requirements of a Certificate of Professional Competence every five years (in simple terms, it's done a bit differently but it does require some training to have taken place).

 

I would have to say however that I was massively disappointed at the competence of at least one of the pleasure boat skippers on the Thames. Coming under Tower Bridge with the tide pushing me at nearly 9mph, one of the buffoons reversed his boat off Tower Pier directly in front of me and, from what I could see, he was taking more interest in whatever commentary he was giving rather than navigating his boat. Left me with the option of T-boning him, going between him and Tower Pier (inadvisable, since he clearly hadn't seen me so could just as easily have pulled back to the pier trapping me between his boat and the pier) and the option I had to take, which was to steer quite urgently around the stern of his boat, putting me into the path of boats coming up on the South side of the river (where you'd expect them to be). A certain amount of swearing took place I would have to admit. Since that incident I don't credit commercial pleasure boat skippers with any more ability than anyone else, they are just workers operating a boat.

[mrsmelly]

43 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

When you say you have renewed your masters licence, what test or competence did you have to do? Or was it just like renewing a passport? genuine question since I've been renewing my sailing ICC every 5 years enabling me to bareboat charter for offshore sailing and all I have to do is send in the application, no evidence having done  any sailing since the last application is required. This rather differs from my LGV licence which, for me to renew it and be able to use it, I would have to complete the requirements of a Certificate of Professional Competence every five years (in simple terms, it's done a bit differently but it does require some training to have taken place).

 

I would have to say however that I was massively disappointed at the competence of at least one of the pleasure boat skippers on the Thames. Coming under Tower Bridge with the tide pushing me at nearly 9mph, one of the buffoons reversed his boat off Tower Pier directly in front of me and, from what I could see, he was taking more interest in whatever commentary he was giving rather than navigating his boat. Left me with the option of T-boning him, going between him and Tower Pier (inadvisable, since he clearly hadn't seen me so could just as easily have pulled back to the pier trapping me between his boat and the pier) and the option I had to take, which was to steer quite urgently around the stern of his boat, putting me into the path of boats coming up on the South side of the river (where you'd expect them to be). A certain amount of swearing took place I would have to admit. Since that incident I don't credit commercial pleasure boat skippers with any more ability than anyone else, they are just workers operating a boat.

It's a bit in between. You have to supply proof of a number of hours on the correct class type of boat. I had to re do first aid not the basic one the next stage up . Also the stupid survival at sea nonsense and take a medical which is a bit of a joke as The doctor I used had never done an Mca medical and I had to explain what was required, it is basically similar to heavy goods test.i did not however need to do the practical boat test or written and verbal tests again. ? In all honesty in all walks of life there are good and bad at their jobs you will certainly know that from the police. I was astounded on tonight's news, did you see it Re the 77 year old bus driver that had been working 75 hour weeks before the fatal bus accident where key killed two people. It beggars belief and again makes the call between forcibly being retired from certain jobs at a certain age or not?

[David Schweizer]

.

Edited September 18, 2018 by David Schweizer

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

When you say you have renewed your masters licence, what test or competence did you have to do? Or was it just like renewing a passport? genuine question since I've been renewing my sailing ICC every 5 years enabling me to bareboat charter for offshore sailing and all I have to do is send in the application, no evidence having done  any sailing since the last application is required. This rather differs from my LGV licence which, for me to renew it and be able to use it, I would have to complete the requirements of a Certificate of Professional Competence every five years (in simple terms, it's done a bit differently but it does require some training to have taken place).

 

I would have to say however that I was massively disappointed at the competence of at least one of the pleasure boat skippers on the Thames. Coming under Tower Bridge with the tide pushing me at nearly 9mph, one of the buffoons reversed his boat off Tower Pier directly in front of me and, from what I could see, he was taking more interest in whatever commentary he was giving rather than navigating his boat. Left me with the option of T-boning him, going between him and Tower Pier (inadvisable, since he clearly hadn't seen me so could just as easily have pulled back to the pier trapping me between his boat and the pier) and the option I had to take, which was to steer quite urgently around the stern of his boat, putting me into the path of boats coming up on the South side of the river (where you'd expect them to be). A certain amount of swearing took place I would have to admit. Since that incident I don't credit commercial pleasure boat skippers with any more ability than anyone else, they are just workers operating a boat.

Yes, some of them are exteeemly arrogant. When I was taking Helvetia up the Thames some years ago, the captain of a big Trip Boat had a go at me because he wanted more space than he needed and launched into an attack on how "Noddy Boaters" had no idea how difficulty it was to operate a trip boat.  I did not respond but went down into the cabin and produced my Boatmaster'd Licence which authorised me to operate a trip boat with up to 240 passender on catagory 1 & 2 waters (which included the Thames above Teddingon) He went very quiet!

[pete harrison]

3 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

We used to take up to 40 i think solo, but not at night. At night you had to have crew to sell beer.....

When I was about twelve or thirteen I used to steer trip boats in Birmingham, complete with strippers - and no crew (apart from behind the bar). Things were so much better in the early and mid 1970's

Edited September 18, 2018 by pete harrison

[roland elsdon]

Ah the delights of gas street, its all so sanitised now. 

Sin has become corporate and organised , rather than a booze cruise with strippers.

We never went that low Tam and Di ran a classy operation, but i remember fights, nakedness, bottle throwing, and a fishist being hurled into the canal by the officers from west drayton nick, and having his fishist junk returned to him in a million bits.

good days

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

It beggars belief and again makes the call between forcibly being retired from certain jobs at a certain age or not?

Some folk are better at 75 years of age than others at, say, 55.  However, very few are at their best after working 75 hours a week, and none should be driving PSV at those hours. 

[pete harrison]

7 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Ah the delights of gas street, its all so sanitised now. 

Yes, I much prefer the Gas Street of 1985 and earlier - 1985 being the year I retired from professional boating and pretty much coincided with the opening of the pub at the end of 'the bar'.

 

I think I was a similar age (twelve or thirteen) when I took out my first motor and butty pair, becoming a full time boatman at seventeen. I often used to see the boat I now own, and I have a clear memory of the owners young daughter steering around Old Turn stood on a box - and she now owns a similar motor. I can't help feeling these things would cause uproar nowadays 

[Jess--]

2 hours ago, pete harrison said:

When I was about twelve or thirteen I used to steer trip boats in Birmingham, complete with strippers - and no crew (apart from behind the bar). Things were so much better in the early and mid 1970's

That wouldn't happen to have been with Leisure Line canal cruises by any chance?

[pete harrison]

17 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

That wouldn't happen to have been with Leisure Line canal cruises by any chance?

I was not fussy back then as I would jump onto almost anybody's boat and would not need to be asked twice to steer - although the reality was I was very rarely on my own. I took on a motor / butty pair in 1979 and as stated earlier I packed in during 1985 and moved to Bristol, before going on to buy our (I was married back then) own motor / butty pair in 1988

[X Alan W]

11 hours ago, pete harrison said:

When I was about twelve or thirteen I used to steer trip boats in Birmingham, complete with strippers - and no crew (apart from behind the bar). Things were so much better in the early and mid 1970's

Welcome to the Stone Age "Numpty" club how dare you state "things were better back then?

[Laurie Booth]

My gear box failed near Birmingham University and a trip boat towed me back to my moorings and refused payment. So they are not all bad.

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, Laurie.Booth said:

My gear box failed near Birmingham University and a trip boat towed me back to my moorings and refused payment. So they are not all bad.

Nice one - and they aren't all bad I'm sure. They aren't all boaters though either; I suspect for some it's just a driving job.